Differences between GURPS 3 & 4 cybernetics

[hal]

Hello folks,
In trying to decide how I will approach repricing various limbs and other cybernetic items from GURPS ULTRATECH for an upcoming cyberpunk/Night City campaign, I started to look at things with a fine tooth comb. This resulted in some questions on my part, and some dis-satisfaction with perceived issues. Before I list some of my issues, I wanted to get some clarifications if possible.

To wit: what is the HT of any bionic device? The maintenance rule on page 143 indicates that if a maintenance interval is missed, the HT drops by one and a roll is made against the HT attribute. Failure results in some problem of the GM's choosing, and a crit failure results in a potentially fatal circumstance.

Maintenance checks that potentially result in a dysfunctional item seem to have the same result as "unreliable" (page 95 ULTRATECH 2 for classic GURPS) which only fails on a 15+ or 13+ depending on which level is taken. The other disadvantage for bionics listed in UT2 is Breakdown Prone (same page as unreliable UT2) with rolls to activate 16+ or 14+ depending on the level chosen.

Is it just me, or do the maintenance rules for cybernetics make things worse than the classic GURPS rules? Consider what happens if HT equals that of the TL (for example, otherwise the HT of 12 based on GURPS TRAVELLER might be more prudent): at 1 missed maintenance interval, HT 9 becomes HT 8. With only a 25% chance of rolling an 8 or less, the device will suffer some form of degradation in performance. This roll is worse than the classic rules. But the rule for crit failures means that ALL bionics can catastrophically fail after missing maintenance of one week! Does this sound right? When you take into account that anyone with bionics now requires 1 hour of maintenance (seemingly per bionic item) and the fact that most professionals charge money for their services; player characters with bionics in GURPS 4e are getting hosed pretty badly as contrasted against Classic GURPS rules.

Seems to me that either I'm missing something, or the rules need more fine tuning. A bionics equipped character whose plane goes down in a jungle, is now facing a grim countdown. It is one thing to have restrictions based on having sufficient power cells available, but another to have the maintenance rules in 4e be applied in a strict manner. Having 1 in 216 bionic devices fail if not maintained within a 168 hour interval would seem to render that "product" a non-viable product for the usual cyberpunk genre convention. I suspect that most of the cybernetic devices should not include the maintenance disadvantage.

Comments?

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by hal

To wit: what is the HT of any bionic device?

Absent specific rules to the contrary, I'd use the HT of the person wearing it.

Originally Posted by hal

But the rule for crit failures means that ALL bionics can catastrophically fail after missing maintenance of one week!

You'll need to connect the dots here. My copy of Ultra-Tech for 4e indicates a monthly maintenance interval. If it's missed, HT is reduced and there's one roll to see if something goes wrong. I don't see anything suggesting that another such roll is necessary until the next maintenance period is missed, which would be another month on. Certainly, any cybernetic device can critically fail if maintenance is missed, but I don't see where you're getting a week from.

[thulben]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Absent specific rules to the contrary, I'd use the HT of the person wearing it.

Hmm… I'd play it slightly differently (which means at least one of us is having the wrong kind of fun). Specifically, as the GM, you should set the HT of the device at a level that suggests its quality/proneness to malfunction. Maybe the base model has HT 10 but the ruggedized version has CF +0.5 and HT 12! Want a cheaper version? You can have one that's CF -0.25 but HT 8. Hope you like getting it fixed!

[Flyndaran]

Somehow I got it into my head that mature prosthetic technologies have Ht 12, but early or experimental ones only 10. Slightly above less important items, because we care more about our body integrity than tools. "Oh no, the fridge is on the fritz." doesn't seem anywhere near as ghastly as "Oh no, my legs gave out."

[hal]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Somehow I got it into my head that mature prosthetic technologies have Ht 12, but early or experimental ones only 10. Slightly above less important items, because we care more about our body integrity than tools. "Oh no, the fridge is on the fritz." doesn't seem anywhere near as ghastly as "Oh no, my legs gave out."

Why limit the HT to 12?

;)

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by hal

Why limit the HT to 12?

;)

You don't have to as long as you're willing to pay for my ultra rugged model. It's only 10 times as expensive. But how much do you value your limbs?
(There is no way to sell cybernetic prosthetics without sounding creepy, eh?)
I want to break out into song from Repo; a genetic opera.

[hal]

Originally Posted by thulben

Hmm… I'd play it slightly differently (which means at least one of us is having the wrong kind of fun). Specifically, as the GM, you should set the HT of the device at a level that suggests its quality/proneness to malfunction. Maybe the base model has HT 10 but the ruggedized version has CF +0.5 and HT 12! Want a cheaper version? You can have one that's CF -0.25 but HT 8. Hope you like getting it fixed!

Good idea, and I'm not knocking it. Problem is that it falls in the domain of house rules. If I were to house rule it myself, I'd use the maintenance rules from Classic GURPS.

Problem is - why is that information missing in the first place from the rules as written? That is why I'm hoping that the rules are there and that I missed it

[hal]

Originally Posted by thulben

Hmm… I'd play it slightly differently (which means at least one of us is having the wrong kind of fun). Specifically, as the GM, you should set the HT of the device at a level that suggests its quality/proneness to malfunction. Maybe the base model has HT 10 but the ruggedized version has CF +0.5 and HT 12! Want a cheaper version? You can have one that's CF -0.25 but HT 8. Hope you like getting it fixed!

For what it is worth, after months later, I stumbled over the rules in GURPS ULTRATECH for 4e, and found that the rules specify that the HT of any cybernetic item is indeed, 10, unless ruggedized...

Nice call. :)

[hal]

For those who are interested...

Currently, I'm running a campaign via FG2 for a friend of mine over the net. The year is 2047, and the TL is (Classic GURPS definition here, NOT 4e) Mature 8, edging into TL 9 (which seems to my way of thinking, be about the same in both GURPS 3e and 4e for the most part).

Changes we made to the system for use with the game (ie house rules):

Character point costs for having "devices" excludes the maintenance interval. Part of the problem I have with 4e is that they didn't specify much information for what batteries contain within - nor the additional cost for maintenance in monetary value. Got to a medical facility today, and you get hit with office visit costs in addition to the specialist's time. This would not likely be any different, something that GURPS 4e seems to have failed to take into account with the pricing of the Maintenance disadvantage. This factor ups the cost of living by a factor...

In any event:

Next item:

We liked the rules for "Fast" processor and "Genius" processor costs for computers in GURPS ULTRATECH for 4e, and have kept those options as is for the campaign. Neural Net computers are handled differently:

Neural Net's evolve over time. We never liked the fact that despite the fact that in ULTRATECH (either version), the initial IQ was dependent on the hardware, and that IQ could be improved above and beyond via character points, we hit upon the following solution:

Any software that handle's skills, is treated as a complexity 3 item, and is loosely modeled upon the EXPERT SOFTWARE concepts in CLASSIC ULTRATECH. At CLASSIC TL 8, easy and average skills have a ceiling of skill 12 for anyone without a skill - using the expert software instead. Each tech level higher than 8, and the skill gains a +1 bonus to its ceiling. If you want to have a higher ceiling, each +1 bonus requires that the software's complexity be bumped up by 1.

The IQ of the robot is calculated as given in Classic_Robots such that a computer with a complexity 4 computer, has an IQ of 7 initially, or an IQ of 8 with a Neural Net component. No longer does a computer gain the "eidetic memory" advantage as given in CLASSIC_ROBOTS, but follows this progression instead:

IQ remains unchangeable due to hardware constraints. Skills are upgraded for Neural Net (Abbrev as NN from now on) computers are upgraded like they would for a normal character. Once the "limit" has been reached of the software itself, the skill can no longer be improved.

As for memories that the NN brain accumulates? Just as a human being has long term memory and short term memory, so too does the NN Brain. When memory is reaching a point where it is reaching maximum capacity, the NN Brain has to decide which memories it wants to keep, which memories it wants to alter (High resolution dropped to low resolution or packed to cut on memory use size) and which ones it wants to delete entirely after backing up onto external media. Because the NN Brain is now no longer the same as when it was first created - the back up memory is no longer functional for any other NN Brain - as the unit is literally wired differently than any other NN Brain. VIDEO and AUDIO files however, can be exported in a standard format, and usable anywhere that format can be read.

For example (all in 3e stats):

A minicomputer, has a complexity of 3 at TL 8 (TL-5). Give it the "Fast" technology, and it goes up to 4. Its IQ without the Neural Net Brain option - is 7. With NN Option, it goes to 8. The buyer of that robotic NN Brain, purchases a housekeeping program for the robot. Since this robot hasn't had the program installed, its skill with HOUSEKEEPING from the start is treated as though the Robot has 1 point in the skill with an IQ of 8. Our NN Brain has a skill of 8 in Housekeeping now. The purchaser of the robot can either have someone or something teach our new robot's skill from a level of 8 to a 9, from 9 to a 10, from 10 to an 11, or from an 11 to 12, but the robot will NEVER be able to improve from the 12 to anything higher. Had the owner purchased a complexity 4 version of the skill, then the robot could have learned the housekeeping skill to a level of 13.

Later on, next technology level 9, that same computer would become a complexity 5 computer. The skill program would have a baseline of 13 (the initial 12 plus 1). Taking it up to a complexity 4 level means that the robot's upper limit is now 14. Taking the program to a complexity 5 means it can take it to a limit of 15.

Just sharing this with others who might want to experiment and use it for their own campaigns. The idea is - to have something that has some firm limits on robots that doesn't use the meta concept of Character points, but has some internal self-consistency with "realism".

[hal]

Something I want to share in case there are people who still run cyberpunk campaigns and like to have additional support material for their campaign environment...

There is a group of people who enjoy still, Cyberpunk 2020 - and create material for use with the genre and the game system. While in chat at another forum, one individual in question, put together a City Kit, that permits the GM to quickly generate building heights (floors) along with building inhabitants as far as business types go. The nice thing is, it is constructed for use with 1d10 random rolling or 1d100.

It is available at RPGNOW with a "pay what you want" option. With 48 pages stuffed with things a gm might want, it is worth what ever you decide it is worth. Things like "call for backup" and determining what the person calling for back up gets (assuming the caller is in law enforcement of some kind), is nice - right down to how many minutes it takes for the help to arrive on the scene. A GM who builds drone robots for their campaign, would find it nice to know that drones are included in encounters. ;)

In all - I found it worth the money I paid for it. Now if it only had "Street names" that I could use in a pinch, it would be complete. Teasing aside, I'm willing to bet that this is something that Cyberpunk GM's might be glad exists.

The name of the item in question is:



The Holistic City Kit For Cyberpunk Games by Augmented Reality