Gambling in 2100?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

With a VII you don't need to "count cards" You can simply record every card displayed and run actual probability simulations.

That's still card counting. It's just an extremely detailed version.

I'm not sure how many cards need to come out of a deck before it's usefully predictable, though. If you shuffle often enough card counting doesn't help.

[Keiko]

How could you change games like Blackjack and Roulette to render techniques like card counting less reliable without making them essentially different games?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Keiko

How could you change games like Blackjack and Roulette to render techniques like card counting less reliable without making them essentially different games?

For blackjack, the rules can be tweaked to simply adjust the house edge by more than you can possibly get back via card counting (I think a 1:1 edge on blackjack payout will make card counting non-viable). For roulette, the problem is that the roulette wheel is a mechanical object with fairly basic physics, and there's really nothing you can to do make it more random that won't visibly alter the behavior of the ball.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Keiko

How could you change games like Blackjack and Roulette to render techniques like card counting less reliable without making them essentially different games?

Roulette you only need to do honestly with a few tweaks about betting and launching the ball.

Blackjack is all about probability though ("Will one or more cards I might take improve my position v. that of the house and/or other players?"). I do not think it can be made proof against computerized probability calculations without massive alterations. Such changes could force changes with the "House stands on 17" rule or whatever it is.

Nah, it's just going to be simpler to keep fleecing the compulsive gamblers and kicking out people ho win too much.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Roulette you only need to do honestly with a few tweaks about betting and launching the ball.

If by 'tweaks about betting' you mean 'betting before the ball is launched', sure. Otherwise, you can get accuracy enough to beat the house edge by trying to predict trajectory after the ball has been launched, that's a level of processing that can be done in wetware, let alone using software.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Anthony

If by 'tweaks about betting' you mean 'betting before the ball is launched', sure. Otherwise, you can get accuracy enough to beat the house edge by trying to predict trajectory after the ball has been launched, that's a level of processing that can be done in wetware, let alone using software.

That assumes a predictable human thrower. If you have a randomly generated degree of force between throws, I have difficulty seeing how one could effectively predict the final number group.

That would still leave cheaters the option of sneaking in an on-the-surface random force generator program such gives them an edge for specific throws.

I remember someone implanting such a program into slot machines that pay out big but only after a careful sequence of bets and pulls.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That assumes a predictable human thrower.

No it doesn't. You can determine after the throw what the ball is doing, at which point the behavior of the thrower no longer matters.

[jeff_wilson]

Yes, the ball goes around at a predictable rate, much like this thread....

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Anthony

No it doesn't. You can determine after the throw what the ball is doing, at which point the behavior of the thrower no longer matters.

I have trouble how you could get accurate enough readings on the ball's movement without lasers. But I assumed that the simple fix of not allowing bets during play would become the norm. I don't get why it hasn't always been so, really.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I have trouble how you could get accurate enough readings on the ball's movement without lasers.

Just time how long it takes to pass one point twice. It simply doesn't take that much information to make roulette net positive.