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Old 04-05-2010, 09:40 PM   #31
ladyarcana55
 
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Default Re: Difficult Player Type

Since we are on this let me ask you this...

what do you do when there is a player who is so stubborn about his character concepts that he will play his character to the point of interfering with your character concepts?

example:

One time he played a character who wanted to collect every magical weapon out there. At one point he got a weapon that one of the other players made clear she wanted for her character because it went along with her character concept. Not only did he grab it but he refused to trade with her despite her reasoning. She ended up having to alter her character.

He really likes over the top characters and he really likes the drama as they all learn to work together, but it's a pain.

What do you do about that?
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:28 PM   #32
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Default Re: Difficult Player Type

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Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
Since we are on this let me ask you this...

what do you do when there is a player who is so stubborn about his character concepts that he will play his character to the point of interfering with your character concepts?

example:

One time he played a character who wanted to collect every magical weapon out there. At one point he got a weapon that one of the other players made clear she wanted for her character because it went along with her character concept. Not only did he grab it but he refused to trade with her despite her reasoning. She ended up having to alter her character.

He really likes over the top characters and he really likes the drama as they all learn to work together, but it's a pain.

What do you do about that?
Ditch this "I call 'Dibs' on that item!!!" nonsense. At treasure dividing time, total up the resale value for the items or estimate of same if you play market forces rather than price in the book.

The total treasure for the adventure has a value or estimated value. Divide that amount among the number of Characters who split the loot. Each character has that much credit plus any funds already possessed. If you have $125,000 in loot, and five characters, each character has $25,000 in credit. Coins and gems and hard cash barterables are easy to split up. But they can also wait.

Magic items aren't divisible by and large. Some regular items may be too expensive to divide up and not something the group wants to sell.

Phase 1: Go over the list of items that can't be converted to cash or divvyed up. NO ONE makes a purchase at this point. Go around the group in some form of order, 1 claim per 'turn'. You make a claim on the items you want/can afford to buy. Most of the time, no one else puts a counter claim on the item.

If no one objects to anything, buy the items, sell whatever needs to be sold and split the monetary difference. If you spent $18,500 of your share on an item or items, you get $6500 in cash or other equivalents along with your item(s).

If there is a conflict. Phase 2 is that you talk it out amongst the group. Each claimant makes their case for getting the item in front of the group as a whole. Dog in the manger 'in character' reasons are usually doomed. The non-participants get to kibbitz and throw in their opinions. Bogus sounding reasons for taking an item generally don't survive this process and the person with the legitimate reason for having it usually gets it.

HOWEVER, if this can't resolve things, it's time for Phase 3: Auction!

Which of the bidders wants the item badly enough to pay more for it?

If the item price stays below the winning bidder's total credit, he simply is shifting a bigger share of his cash to the rest of the group for the item.

If he has to bring in personal money, 80% of his cash goes to the other characters in the 5 person group. He or she recovers 20% from the group loot's increased total.

If there are more items the bidders want, the auction tends to be short.

If more than one person is willing to empty a wallet or seven to get that item, the other players get an entertaining show.

And the loser may just have stayed in the bidding a bit longer to make sure the winner got price gouged. Of course this risks winning the item at too high a price!
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: Difficult Player Type

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
What do you do then when a new player is recruited by one of your players, and is described to you as "sorta like the person you kicked out"? Do you give them a chance?
Hell no. After a colossal failure like that, I'd never let that player recruit for me again.

Seriously, though, I would want to ask that player what the heck he was thinking, and I wouldn't be particularly interested in his answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
what do you do when there is a player who is so stubborn about his character concepts that he will play his character to the point of interfering with your character concepts?

example:

One time he played a character who wanted to collect every magical weapon out there. At one point he got a weapon that one of the other players made clear she wanted for her character because it went along with her character concept. Not only did he grab it but he refused to trade with her despite her reasoning. She ended up having to alter her character.
If she didn't pay points for the weapon, tough. Next time she wants a signature weapon to complete her precious character concept, make her buy it properly.

As it is, I can't see any in-game reason why his character has to trade the weapon away. Maybe she should find something better to trade for it - say, another magical weapon. Or find something else he values. Or maybe she should steal it. Or maybe she should challenge him to a duel/wrestling match/footrace/knitting contest/poker game/whatever for it. Or maybe she could just stab him in the face one chilly morning and roll his body into the river.

This assumes, of course, that the players are having fun, and that he's just playing in character. If he's ruining other players' fun by deliberately sabotaging their characters, he either needs to shape up or find something else to do with his time.
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:32 PM   #34
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Default Re: Difficult Player Type

I love those ideas!

But I should have been clearer in my question...

What do you do about the players who play over the top characters to the extent that they will impede and cause drama in game because it's what their character would do and screw everyone who doesn't like it?
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:36 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
What do you do about the players who play over the top characters to the extent that they will impede and cause drama in game because it's what their character would do and screw everyone who doesn't like it?
I favor defenestration.

In-game consequences ought to work, but in this case, the player is really just out to sabotage your game for fun and doesn't actually care what happens to his character, so employ the window instead.
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:37 PM   #36
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Default Re: Difficult Player Type

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Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
I love those ideas!

But I should have been clearer in my question...

What do you do about the players who play over the top characters to the extent that they will impede and cause drama in game because it's what their character would do and screw everyone who doesn't like it?

You need a pair of pliers and his knuckles to do what needs be done the best way...

Edit: Okay, maybe it's not the BEST way, just the most satisfactory of the lot. ;)
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:38 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
One time he played a character who wanted to collect every magical weapon out there. At one point he got a weapon that one of the other players made clear she wanted for her character because it went along with her character concept. Not only did he grab it but he refused to trade with her despite her reasoning. She ended up having to alter her character.

He really likes over the top characters and he really likes the drama as they all learn to work together, but it's a pain.

What do you do about that?
Are you the player or the GM?

If you're the GM, you're at fault: It's your job to foresee that that character concept will create conflicts with the other players and make them unhappy. You ought not to have permitted that character concept in the first place, or, at least, you ought to have told all the other players what the concept was, and asked if any of them would find it made their characters less satisfying to play. Since you made the mistake of approving a character that should not have been accepted, you now need to tell the player, "Your way of playing your character is making the game not fun for other players. You have to change your character concept, create a new character, or resign from the campaign."

If you're a player, obviously you can't do any of that, and the GM screwed up. If you support the player who had to change her character concept, tell the GM so, and ask to have the troublesome player brought into line. Say that they're making the campaign not fun, explicitly.

Alternatively, speak up when the player does that; tell their character, "that's not fair; why should you automatically get first pick every time?" I don't know the rules of engagement you play under, but you might (a) kill them outright, (b) point a weapon at them and tell them to set down what they've taken, or (c) tell them you're not willing to go adventuring with them any more if they pull that kind of stunt. Demand that either (p) all found items be assigned an agreed upon value and figured into the total, (q) characters who want to claim a found item dice for them, or (r) everyone get to pick in random order until all the items are claimed.

You might like to take a look at a book on classical pirates for rules on dividing treasure; they had very strict regulations, and harsh penalties for breaking them. The Invisible Hook is a lucid discussion of this, among other things.

Bill Stoddard

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
What do you do about the players who play over the top characters to the extent that they will impede and cause drama in game because it's what their character would do and screw everyone who doesn't like it?
If I'm running a campaign where that's not thematically appropriate . . . such as both my current campaigns . . . I'll include the expectation of teamwork in the prospectus, spell out what it means at the presession before character creation starts, and reject any proposed character who will mess up the other characters. That makes it part of the social contract. Then if a player starts breaching it later, I'll remind them that they agreed to a certain character concept and that they have to play by that; if necessary, I'll dock them of experience until they get into line.

Bill Stoddard

Last edited by Andrew Hackard; 04-05-2010 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:50 PM   #38
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Default Re: Difficult Player Type

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Are you the player or the GM?
I was a player in this particular game (thank GOD I would have gone nuts if i were the GM!)

The GM in this game let people play unusual characters. A half elf/half demon, a Drow, a sentient Golem. I had to fight to play my boring elven thief.

This particular player was playing a weretiger. He had a strength of 30 (this was D&D) and I was 8 levels above him and even if I rolled a critical and maxed my damage, he would still be standing, and this with all of my pluses and magic. So he was able to do whatever he wanted because even if we all banded together, we couldn't stop him.

The GM in this game is his best friend so he gets away with so much, it's ridiculous. My character would have left the group but then the GM makes it so that my character is vital to the success of the mission so now my character is trapped. When we try to bring it up to the GM

"It's only in your head, that's not what's actually happening."

Do I need to tell you how frustrating this is?
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:59 PM   #39
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Default Re: Difficult Player Type

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Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
"It's only in your head, that's not what's actually happening."

Do I need to tell you how frustrating this is?
Leave. See if you can steal his better players while doing so.
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:05 PM   #40
whswhs
 
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Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
This particular player was playing a weretiger. He had a strength of 30 (this was D&D) and I was 8 levels above him and even if I rolled a critical and maxed my damage, he would still be standing, and this with all of my pluses and magic. So he was able to do whatever he wanted because even if we all banded together, we couldn't stop him.

The GM in this game is his best friend so he gets away with so much, it's ridiculous. My character would have left the group but then the GM makes it so that my character is vital to the success of the mission so now my character is trapped. When we try to bring it up to the GM

"It's only in your head, that's not what's actually happening."

Do I need to tell you how frustrating this is?
Insist on fighting him to the death. Get your character killed. Then say, "No, I don't want to roll up another character; X is an abusive jerk and I don't have any interest in gaming with him any more." Then walk out.

Really, there is no way to solve this sort of thing by applying the rules to force a resolution in your favor. The only power you ultimately have is the power to refuse to play with people who make the game Not Fun. If you're really willing to do that, sometimes it will convince the other person that you're serious and they need to do something, and if it doesn't, at least you're out of it.

If you're ready to walk, then you can walk. At that point the success of the group doesn't matter to you. If the GM makes your character essential, then they've just handed you a dice bag with their vitals inside; you can either squeeze it or throw it away.

I'm sure this all sounds ruthless, but when I was in junior high school, I read Shaw's Man and Superman, and one of his "maxims for revolutionists" was "You had better take care to get what you like or you shall have to like what you get." I have lived all my life since then by that advice. I recommend it to you.

Bill Stoddard

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Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
Leave. See if you can steal his better players while doing so.
Quite. They're probably tired of that guy being the GM's girlfriend too.

Bill Stoddard

Last edited by Andrew Hackard; 04-05-2010 at 11:10 PM.
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