Spirits & Cell Phones

[Plane]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Resistance does not protect you against the ability while Protected Sight does offer protection.
Resistance (and Immunity) only protects against physical Afflictions with Blood Agent, Contact Agent, Follow-Up, or Respiratory (Basic, p. 80-81).
When it comes to mental threats or Maledictions though, Resistance (or Immunity) would apply while Protected Sight would not (for example, the previous affliction with Malediction rather than Sight-Based, Reserved).

You can have sight-based maledictions though, that would seem to check both boxes of being simultaneously a vision-based and mental-based attack. You can have attacks that come via more than one medium.

[AlexanderHowl]

Well, that is actually a limitation for Maledictions rather than the case of combining two penetration modifiers to get a better effect. In that case, you do not really have the Sense-Based penetration modifier, you have the Malediction penetration modifier limited to sense-only (basically, you have Accessibility, Only those who [sense] me, -20%). You can only use Malediction through the sense and cannot attack the sense without Malediction, combining the weaknesses of both without gaining the strengths of both. Protected Sense would give a bonus because your Malediction is additionally limited by that sense (it would also be avoid by the appropriate disadvantage, Blindness for Sight-Based, Deafness for Hearing-Based, etc.) and Resistance gives a bonus because it is resisting a Malediction.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

that is actually a limitation for Maledictions rather than the case of combining two penetration modifiers to get a better effect.

It's combining them for a lesser effect, I think? B109 doesn't seem to imply different mechanics for countermeasures.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In that case, you do not really have the Sense-Based penetration modifier,
you have the Malediction penetration modifier limited to sense-only
(basically, you have Accessibility, Only those who [sense] me, -20%).

If that's the case, then such an accessibility seems like it makes standard countermeasures work.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

You can only use Malediction through the sense and cannot attack the sense without Malediction, combining the weaknesses of both without gaining the strengths of both. Protected Sense would give a bonus because your Malediction is additionally limited by that sense (it would also be avoid by the appropriate disadvantage, Blindness for Sight-Based, Deafness for Hearing-Based, etc.) and Resistance gives a bonus because it is resisting a Malediction.

I agree. PP35 "Flash" for example mentions "Protected Vision adds +5" for example. I don't think it says "Resist to Psi adds +" because that's assumed against all powers in book other than anti-Psi.

Are you disagreeing with your saying "Resistance does not protect you against the ability" earlier then?

Small quibble is that I think resistance gives bonus because it's a resisted psi-source power, not because the resistance is against a malediction. I think you'd get the same against non-maledictions which are sense-based too. I guess the advance to those is Malediction-Proof DR isn't a guard.

I'm wondering if Cosmic: Defensive doesn't stop Maledictions given that if it did there wouldn't be much room to buy Malediction-Proof since they're the same cost.

[AlexanderHowl]

I do not think that Resistance (Psi) would work against a purely Sense-Based attack (Flash works through producing light, after the effect is triggered, it really does not matter if the light was produced through magic, psionics, etc.), since Resistance does not work against attacks that are hindered by DR or Protected Senses, though it would work against a sense-limited Malediction (at least as I read it, though I could be wrong). As for Cosmic, I think that Cosmic (+50%) would not really work against Malediction, nor would it work against Armor Divisor, as it is only really supposed to protect against Cosmic, Irresistible, +300%.

An alternative form of Flash would be the following: Burning Attack 2d (Area Effect, 8 yards, +150%; Armor Divisor /5, +150%; Emanation, -20%; Photokinesis, -10%; Selective Area, +20%; Symptoms, 1/2 HP, Blindness, +100%) [49]. Notes: The victim suffers a burning attack that blinds them if they suffer cumulative damage equal to or greater than 1/2 HP. Since the attack is indirect damage, Resistance does not offer protection. Since the attack is not Sense-Based, Protected Sense does not offer protection.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Flash works through producing light, after the effect is triggered, it really does not matter if the light was produced through magic, psionics, etc.

That's a fun consideration for DR (Magic Only) as there seem to be mixed takes on it

[AlexanderHowl]

DR (and Resistant) does not work against Sense-Based, since Protected Sense is the only legal protection.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

DR (and Resistant) does not work against Sense-Based, since Protected Sense is the only legal protection.

B109 only mentions ignoring DR, as does P118 Unstoppable Attacks.

I think the idea of Cosmic: Irresistible Attack also negating the benefit of Resistant/Immune was added in PU4p8 as I can't find it until then.

I don't know that this necessarily means other DR-ignoring attacks like Malediction or Sense-Based would also though.

Malediction 1 +100% (B106) on an Innate Attack (B61) is an interesting one if we try to emulate that via other modifiers....

It's basically like..

Inacurate -15% (can't Aim to get hit bonus)
buying off 1/2D +15%
Cosmic: No Active Defense Allowed +300%
Cosmic: No die roll required +100%
Resistible -10%
Short-Range -10%

Where I'm having trouble emulating is this:

0) turning an Attack maneuver into a Concentrate... not that big a deal though, arguably #1 below turning a physical ability into a mental one has the option of doing this.

1) "Requires Will Roll -5%" is closest, but it shouldn't be worth THAT many points, because that normally means on a failure you have to spend 1 FP to attempt it again unless you wait 5 minutes. Maledictions don't have that drawback. Maledictions are also not impossible to attempt if you have 3 FP or less. Powers doesn't state that for Requires (Attribute) roll, but PU8 clarified it works that way since it's based on Unreliable.

2) Malediction has no hard-capping Max stat (having Short Range penalties just creates a natural soft cap) which is basically non-quantifiable. It's like Increased Range: infinite. Unlike "Increased Duration" it doesn't just have a "permanent" end point. There is a hint of that with Malediction 2 (ie Malediction 1 + Long Range 1) where you can often go further than the mere max 100 that most attacks have, though B550 gives -11 to hit up to 150y so it's bound to fail. FULLER realization is with Malediction 3 (Malediction 1 + Long Range 2) since using B241 penalties, it's only -1 up to half a mile (880 yards) and Powers basically gave an ubermechanic for creating "Malediction 4" by using M1+LR3 so you can just attack anywhere you can clearly perceive.

3) Malediction require you to "clearly perceive" a foe so you can't just fire blindly overtop a wall at whoever is back there, an advantage a classic Innate Attack enjoys. You can't for example attack someone sneaking up behind you with a Malediction like you could using a Wild Swing.

4) Malediction can ignore cover and intervening barriers, so long as you can perceive past them somehow. This is sort of like some aspect of "Surprise Attack" from Powers but I wouldn't charge full points for it since a lot of that (compromising active defenses) is covered by taking the +300% modifier.

5) there is a special type of DR that functions against Maledictions only (Malediction DF in Psionic Powers) which would not function against Irresistible attack, so that's like a limit on the cosmic enhancement somehow. Whereas: Cosmic DR probably protects against BOTH the irresistible attack AND malediction (although cosmic DR costs exactly the same as malediction DR so something is off...)

[AlexanderHowl]

Resistant mentions not working against any attack that DR or Protected Sense either stops or gives a bonus to HT rolls, such as Afflictions and Innate Attacks without Blood Agent, Contact Agent, Follow-Up, or Respiratory Agent (Basic, p. 80). A question though, does that also apply to Malediction too since DR (Malediction Proof) exists?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

A question though, does that also apply to Malediction too since DR (Malediction Proof) exists?

Not also but separately use. See Mental Resistance at the end of the description for Resistant in Basic.
So by default its for HT but can be purchased for IQ/Will instead.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Resistant mentions not working against any attack that DR or Protected Sense either stops or gives a bonus to HT rolls, such as Afflictions and Innate Attacks without Blood Agent, Contact Agent, Follow-Up, or Respiratory Agent (Basic, p. 80). A question though, does that also apply to Malediction too since DR (Malediction Proof) exists?

I think part of the strangeness here at least in respect to Blood Agent and Contact Agent is that these are sometimes (for AE) enhancements which allow bypassing DR, much like "Respiratory Agent" does.

Follow-up similarly bypasses DR because it only works after it's carrier has bypassed DR.

Resistant does not protect against
effects that Damage Resistance or
Protected Sense either stop or provide
a HT bonus to resist. This includes
Afflictions and Innate Attacks that do
not have any of the modifiers given
above.

I did notice that instead of 'attack' (as you mention) the noun is actually 'effects' though... is that maybe an important distinction since 'Resistant to Psi' is actually protecting against an ability's source rather than the ability's affect?

Resistant to Psi is meant to oppose IQ and Will rolls though, not HT...

So maybe the distinction is "you're blind because I'm convincing your mind you can't see" (roll vs will) is guarded against by Resist Psi but not Protected Vision / Nictitating Membrane, while those two help against "vs HT" stuff that ignores Resist Psi (IQ/will only)

Where this gets fuzzy with Maledictions is it's so easy to just swap whast the resisting attribute is... and it becomes hard to distinguish "I'm attacking your body so I need to see your eyeballs" vs "I'm attacking your mind so we need to meet gazes, window to the soul and all".

Maybe the distinction is physical advantage vs mental advantage?