I try 'til I succeed

[Anders]

So I've been toying with using the rules for Taking Extra Time (p. B346) in a new way. If a person says their willing to e.g. search a room until they find something, I make a secret roll. If they succeed, I tell them what they find. If they fail by 5 or less, I add time as given on p. B346 (so if they fail by 2, it takes four times as long as normal; if they fail by 5 it takes 30 times as long as normal). If there is nothing to be found, they search for 30 times as long as normal whether they want to or not.

[DanHoward]

I usually decide upon two options:

1. Rule that they will eventually succeed, in which case they don't need a skill roll at all. Just roll randomly to see how long it takes.

2. Give them a cumulative -1 penalty on each successive attempt until they either get a success or a critical failure.

[Ulzgoroth]

Not bad, though it may be slightly harsh when there is no failure penalty. (The expected trials to hit a 5 or lower is a bit under 22, not 30...)

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Anders

So I've been toying with using the rules for Taking Extra Time (p. B346) in a new way. If a person says their willing to e.g. search a room until they find something, I make a secret roll. If they succeed, I tell them what they find. If they fail by 5 or less, I add time as given on p. B346 (so if they fail by 2, it takes four times as long as normal; if they fail by 5 it takes 30 times as long as normal). If there is nothing to be found, they search for 30 times as long as normal whether they want to or not.

So this gave me an idea. What if you had a perk that basically allowed you to SOP a particular skill? Treat your roll as if you had rolled an 11 (a variation of Steven Marsh's rules "This One Goes To 11") and subtract your roll from it (plus your enemy's margin if needed to succeed/fail). Then read the leftover margin as how much time you spent.

Example: Jacob is picking a lock on an old abandoned mine shaft to get away from the wendigo chasing him. His skill is 12. He has a good set of lockpicks for +1 to the roll and lock is old and busted, but still serviceable (+5 to rolls to pick it). His leftover time spent margin is 7 (12 + 1 + 5 = 18 - 11 = 7). Since this normally takes 1 minute to do, his margin allows him to do it in 18 seconds (60 seconds x 0.3 = 18 seconds). Frantically, Jacob gets the lock off, heads inside, and bars the door from inside.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Example: Jacob is picking a lock on an old abandoned mine shaft to get away from the wendigo chasing him. His skill is 12. He has a good set of lockpicks for +1 to the roll and lock is old and busted, but still serviceable (+5 to rolls to pick it). His leftover time spent margin is 7 (12 + 1 + 5 = 18 - 11 = 7). Since this normally takes 1 minute to do, his margin allows him to do it in 18 seconds (60 seconds x 0.3 = 18 seconds). Frantically, Jacob gets the lock off, heads inside, and bars the door from inside.

I've seen that sort of idea applied to much better locks, where the penalties they impose mean failures are likely. Without an SOP perk, if you have plenty of time and you don't critically fail at the penalised roll, you can tell it will take a long time and you can get it open eventually.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by johndallman

I've seen that sort of idea applied to much better locks, where the penalties they impose mean failures are likely. Without an SOP perk, if you have plenty of time and you don't critically fail at the penalised roll, you can tell it will take a long time and you can get it open eventually.

Well, a lock is a system. All systems can be cracked given enough time*. I just liked the idea that it implies. There are some times when you really just want to narrate in GURPS and not constantly roll dice. I think this might give a decent way to do exactly that without getting away from the system. Does it require more work on the GM's part? Sure, but you could set up a cheat sheet prep "Jacob has a margin of 5 so it takes him 30 seconds to open most locks and -6 seconds per +1 involved...."



*My personal best right now is about 1:15 minutes on most household door locks and about 45 seconds on most padlocks.

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by Anders

So I've been toying with using the rules for Taking Extra Time (p. B346) in a new way. If a person says their willing to e.g. search a room until they find something, I make a secret roll. If they succeed, I tell them what they find. If they fail by 5 or less, I add time as given on p. B346 (so if they fail by 2, it takes four times as long as normal; if they fail by 5 it takes 30 times as long as normal). If there is nothing to be found, they search for 30 times as long as normal whether they want to or not.

I like this method, but you could restore some choice to the matter by rolling, determining how long it should take, then let the player know that nothing was found after X time, Y time, Z time, etc. The player may choose to give up after a few intervals,not knowing the last interval would have been successful.

[weby]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

So this gave me an idea. What if you had a perk that basically allowed you to SOP a particular skill? Treat your roll as if you had rolled an 11 (a variation of Steven Marsh's rules "This One Goes To 11") and subtract your roll from it (plus your enemy's margin if needed to succeed/fail). Then read the leftover margin as how much time you spent.


Example: Jacob is picking a lock on an old abandoned mine shaft to get away from the wendigo chasing him. His skill is 12. He has a good set of lockpicks for +1 to the roll and lock is old and busted, but still serviceable (+5 to rolls to pick it). His leftover time spent margin is 7 (12 + 1 + 5 = 18 - 11 = 7). Since this normally takes 1 minute to do, his margin allows him to do it in 18 seconds (60 seconds x 0.3 = 18 seconds). Frantically, Jacob gets the lock off, heads inside, and bars the door from inside.

That works nicely. Almost as if I had though of something like that earlier.. :)

My current campaign has the perk:
Unwavering Skill: You can always take 11 instead of rolling a skill check when used outside of combat and not used at reduced time. One perk/skill. Requires at least 4 points in the skill to take.

And for the single character with two of the perks I have allowed for tasks where the approximate penalty is known and no great penalty on failure (like picking an analyzed lock), I allow the player to specify the variable time when related to the difficulty. Like in picking locks and an analysis of the lock might give "it is -23 to -25 to pick" and then he can just say "I will pick that with these bonuses as base and as much extra time as needed" and get in the variable time.

So in effect I have used that for a few years, except that in my campaign you must not be hurried so cannot get it below base time.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by weby

That works nicely. Almost as if I had though of something like that earlier.. :)

My current campaign has the perk:
Unwavering Skill: You can always take 11 instead of rolling a skill check when used outside of combat and not used at reduced time. One perk/skill. Requires at least 4 points in the skill to take.

And for the single character with two of the perks I have allowed for tasks where the approximate penalty is known and no great penalty on failure (like picking an analyzed lock), I allow the player to specify the variable time when related to the difficulty. Like in picking locks and an analysis of the lock might give "it is -23 to -25 to pick" and then he can just say "I will pick that with these bonuses as base and as much extra time as needed" and get in the variable time.

So in effect I have used that for a few years, except that in my campaign you must not be hurried so cannot get it below base time.

Ha! I like it. I think you could create an advantage that lets you do this for all abilities using Modular Abilities...

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

2. Give them a cumulative -1 penalty on each successive attempt until they either get a success or a critical failure.

Why would searching multiple times give a penalty for spending more time on it? Double-checking and triple-checking make you BETTER at spotting where you went wrong, not increasingly worse.