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Old 11-01-2023, 01:52 PM   #31
Anthony
 
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Default Re: supers: nine options

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
We handle this in the occult WWII campaign by simply not buying offensive powers.
It's the obvious solution, and is not necessarily a problem, plenty of period supers (e.g. Green Hornet, the Shadow) simply chose to use guns, though you also have edge cases like the Sandman who used a gas gun. It really depends on what sort of characters you want to see in the game.
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Old 11-01-2023, 03:31 PM   #32
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Default Re: supers: nine options

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Well, it's the late 1940s or 1950s, they're not going to be paying a lot of points because cops don't have grenade launchers. Also, point accounting is mostly for PCs. You might use it for NPCs to evaluate how significant they are as allies or adversaries, but a guy with a gun is undoubtedly more significant than an unarmed person in that case.
I don't buy that argument. Yes, I can skip figuring point totals for cops and the like. But IF I know that a beat cop's equipment would be worth, say, 100 points, then that tends to undermine the idea that 100 points of powers is all that impressive. It's going to change my view of the setting and the premise.
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Old 11-01-2023, 04:37 PM   #33
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Default Re: supers: nine options

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I don't buy that argument. Yes, I can skip figuring point totals for cops and the like. But IF I know that a beat cop's equipment would be worth, say, 100 points, then that tends to undermine the idea that 100 points of powers is all that impressive. It's going to change my view of the setting and the premise.
If a typical beat cop's equipment would cost 100 points if paid for with points, 100 points of powers isn't all that impressive; all that paying points for gear is doing is making this fact obvious.
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Old 11-01-2023, 08:28 PM   #34
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: supers: nine options

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If a typical beat cop's equipment would cost 100 points if paid for with points, 100 points of powers isn't all that impressive; all that paying points for gear is doing is making this fact obvious.
Fortunately a 1950 beat cop's equipment isn't going to cost 100 pts in Champions. While I can't quite do this stuff without getting out a book I can remember that his .38 revolver is about 1D6+1 K which is 20 pts before applying the Limitations for being an OAF (I remember that's a 1) and only having 6 shots (that one I have to look up).

So we're under 10 pts already and his nightstick is going to be even less and after that we have handcuffs and that's it. No radio or much of anything else.
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Old 11-01-2023, 09:14 PM   #35
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Default Re: supers: nine options

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Fortunately a 1950 beat cop's equipment isn't going to cost 100 pts in Champions. While I can't quite do this stuff without getting out a book I can remember that his .38 revolver is about 1D6+1 K which is 20 pts before applying the Limitations for being an OAF (I remember that's a 1) and only having 6 shots (that one I have to look up).
-0.75, or -0.5 if he carries a couple reloads. Total cost 8. His nightstick is gonna cost something like 1 or 2, the way hand attack has been implemented varies over the editions and I haven't played significantly since 4th.
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Old 11-01-2023, 09:22 PM   #36
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Default Re: supers: nine options

Well, okay. As a test of this idea, I've written up half a dozen streetlevel characters using V&V, and converted most of them to FUDGE, those being two quick and easy systems: a strong character, a fast character, an indestructible character, a stealthy super normal, an inventor with a flight harness, and a telepathic spy. Since I'm looking to benchmark the power levels for other systems, I'm going to try converting one of them: Mariarosa Santangeli, the strong character.

I'm not going to try to convert every exact nuance. Rather, I'll assume that she's an average person with her V&V superpowers added on top of that, and start from "average person" values for the other systems.

In Champions, a "normal" has 0 base poins and up to 25 points in disadvantages. I'll assume that this is enough to handwave her job and recreational skills and her experience during the war.

Item: She has Heightened Strength B, which increases her carrying capacity and damage. An average person in V&V can carry 1x their body weight; she can carry 5.03x her body weight. In Champions, x5 carrying capacity comes to about +12 Strength, for 12 points. That lets her do 4d6 instead of 2d6, commensurate with her going from 1d4 to 1d8 in V&V. It also boosts her PD, Recovery, and Stun for free.

Item: She has Heightened Expertise: +4 to hit with her fists. Since V&V uses a d20, that's a 20% boost to her chances. For the 3d6 in Champions, a 20% boost takes us from 11 or less to 13 or less, which is +2 OCV. With a single attack, that's 4 points.

Item: She has Low Self-Control: a violent temper in combat. I'm going to call that Berserk, Enraged Only, Common Circumstances, enraged on 8 or less, recover on 14 or less, for a 5 point disadvantage.

Item: She has a Vehicle: a motorcycle with a Speed Bonus. This gets complex, even if I assume a V&V motorcycle equals a Champions motorcycle.

In V&V, an average person can move 30" per turn, which equates to 6.8 mph. Her motorcycle can do 118 mph, or about 17x as fast.

In Champions, an average person can run 6" per phase, which equals 12 meters per phase. With Speed 2, they can do 24 meters per turn, or 120 meters per minute, or 4.5 mph. I'm going to multiply that by 17 to get 76.5 mph. I'll assume that this has the x2 noncombat multiple, and that the base speed is 38.25 mph. Assuming Speed 2 again, that equates to 8.5x human running speed, or a movement of 51". Giving +45 to ground movement costs 90 points.

Other than that, a motorcycle has one size increment, which costs 5 points, and gives the motorcycle STR 15 and BODY 11 for free. The motorcycle's DEF doesn't protect Santangeli, but I'm not going to buy it up, so that doesn't have any point effect.

So the motorcycle costs 95 points, which costs 19 character points to acquire. Ironically, that's more than her other abilities combined! I get 12 + 4 + 19 - 5 = 30 points. That's a bit better than Skilled Normal, but not as good as Competent Normal. Maybe I'll build all the Champions versions on 50 base points and take that as "streetlevel."
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Old 11-02-2023, 05:14 AM   #37
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Default Re: supers: nine options

Between Tactical Shooting and Horror, GURPS has rules for acquiring and treating PTSD, which those other systems either lack entirely or have less rigorous approaches to. Given that with both the title and premise, this campaign will likely deal with themes of combat stress and the civilian/military divide, I think that may be the criteria you should be using to decide.

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Old 11-02-2023, 07:53 AM   #38
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Default Re: supers: nine options

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Between Tactical Shooting and Horror, [B]GURPS has rules for acquiring and treating PTSD, which those other systems either lack entirely or have less rigorous approaches to. Given that with both the title and premise, this campaign will likely deal with themes of combat stress and the civilian/military divide, I think that may be the criteria you should be using to decide.
On one hand, I'm not sure that's true. Smallville, at least, has extensive rules for dealing with several different sorts of stress; and it seems as if it would be possible to make up a Distinction reflecting the aftereffects of trauma.

On the other hand, while I see your point, I wouldn't count that as the only priority. There are other things that would also be thematic in a campaign such as I propose.
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Old 11-02-2023, 10:00 PM   #39
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On the other hand, while I see your point, I wouldn't count that as the only priority. There are other things that would also be thematic in a campaign such as I propose.
Well if I was a player in a game called Demobbed and my character was a metahuman WWII vet, I think I would want to explore the effects of combat PTSD in this world. Especially from the perspective of someone who gets called "hero" all the time by strangers, the metahuman angle is a great metaphor (and I think pretty exemplary of your gift for these kinds of metaphors) for the civilian/military divide. It would be shame to not fully enable these elements, regardless of system.

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Old 11-03-2023, 08:25 AM   #40
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Default Re: supers: nine options

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Well if I was a player in a game called Demobbed and my character was a metahuman WWII vet, I think I would want to explore the effects of combat PTSD in this world. Especially from the perspective of someone who gets called "hero" all the time by strangers, the metahuman angle is a great metaphor (and I think pretty exemplary of your gift for these kinds of metaphors) for the civilian/military divide. It would be shame to not fully enable these elements, regardless of system.
Other hand, you have to watch how that's portrayed in the game. A lot of people seem to think combat PTSD is all "Charlie's in the trees!" and war flashbacks. And while my roommate does get his share of flashbacks, especially around July 4 when everyone around here insists on using weapons-grade fireworks starting in late June and continuing until about July 6 or so, his displays largely as anger issues and an inability to sleep at night (because night was when insurgents would attack the base). He's been home since 2010, when he was sent back to the States due to severe combat PTSD, so it's not the sort of thing that wears off quickly, either.
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