Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-07-2019, 04:37 PM   #61
Emerald Cat
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Default Re: [Psionics] [Space] Psi Trek - Worldbuilding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
If we're using psychotronic fusion technology, this is much less of a problem - if a fusion reactor loses containment, I'm told that it tends to shut down, rather than explode like a 'Mech reactor in Stackpole's BattleTech books.
Yeah, psychotronic fusion tech should be safer than antimatter for the reasons you listed. In fact, civilians would probably be restricted to fusion if it is available for security and safety reasons.

The cost benefit analysis is less clear cut on the military side. Sure, you can store much more energy in a smaller space with antimatter. But is that worth losing a ship to a malfunctioning containment vessel?
Emerald Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2019, 04:54 PM   #62
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: [Psionics] [Space] Psi Trek - Worldbuilding

It is worth it if it's necessary for FTL. Though canon ST:TNG was always losing containment every couple of episodes.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2019, 04:56 PM   #63
Prince Charon
 
Prince Charon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: [Psionics] [Space] Psi Trek - Worldbuilding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Cat View Post
Yeah, psychotronic fusion tech should be safer than antimatter for the reasons you listed. In fact, civilians would probably be restricted to fusion if it is available for security and safety reasons.

The cost benefit analysis is less clear cut on the military side. Sure, you can store much more energy in a smaller space with antimatter. But is that worth losing a ship to a malfunctioning containment vessel?
I suggest that that depends greatly on the probability of losing a spacecraft to a malfunctioning containment vessel, compared to the advantages gained by carrying enough anti-matter that a malfunctioning containment vessel has a serious chance of mission-killing the vessel.
__________________
Warning, I have the Distractible and Imaginative quirks in real life.

"The more corrupt a government, the more it legislates."
-- Tacitus

Five Earths, All in a Row. Updated 12/17/2022: Apocrypha: Bridges out of Time, Part I has been posted.
Prince Charon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2019, 08:08 PM   #64
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [Psionics] [Space] Psi Trek - Worldbuilding

A milligram of antimatter will destroy most vessels (the equivalent of 43 metric tons of TNT).
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2019, 08:44 PM   #65
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: [Psionics] [Space] Psi Trek - Worldbuilding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
My current intention is to go with something between the Accelerated and Fast Technological Progression from GURPS Ultra-Tech p8, with TL9 starting in the early 2020s, TL10 being delayed by the Genetics Wars, getting a slower start some time after they end, and TL11 starting in the mid-22nd century, at which point antimatter manufacture becomes cheap enough to be really useful. Is this generally acceptable? If you have an idea that you like better, what is it?
If your tech is "psychotronic" then you don't really need it.
David Johnston2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2019, 08:57 PM   #66
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [Psionics] [Space] Psi Trek - Worldbuilding

Cheap is relative. Antimatter is still $25 million per gram at TL11.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 04:16 PM   #67
Prince Charon
 
Prince Charon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: [Psionics] [Space] Psi Trek - Worldbuilding

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
If your tech is "psychotronic" then you don't really need it.
That's not exactly true, though. Psychotronics (or rather, psi-tech) can be developed at any tech level, but that doesn't mean that the technology does not progress. You can have psi-tech that was invented in 2100 that is less advanced than the version of it in common use in 2200. Call it Equivalent TL if you like, I just don't tend to use the 'TL(X+Y)' form if the TL diverges at the current or a higher TL (so, no TL(8+1)^ or (8+2)^, just TL9^ or 10^), because by definition, we don't yet know exactly what the real TL9 or 10 will be like, just what it probably will.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
A milligram of antimatter will destroy most vessels (the equivalent of 43 metric tons of TNT).
OK, but if we assume that the containment is not breached, how useful is it, and how plausible is it that future containment systems can be made safe enough that it will be worth the risk of carrying significant (meaning one milligram or more) amounts of antimatter on-board? Not limited to its utility as a warhead fuel.

Another EDIT: If we assume that psychotronics at TL11^ allows useful amounts of antimatter to be made fairly quickly on-board a spacecraft, so antimatter isn't stored for long periods, how does this change the situation?
__________________
Warning, I have the Distractible and Imaginative quirks in real life.

"The more corrupt a government, the more it legislates."
-- Tacitus

Five Earths, All in a Row. Updated 12/17/2022: Apocrypha: Bridges out of Time, Part I has been posted.

Last edited by Prince Charon; 10-23-2019 at 08:47 PM.
Prince Charon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 05:10 PM   #68
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: [Psionics] [Space] Psi Trek - Worldbuilding

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Cheap is relative. Antimatter is still $25 million per gram at TL11.
That assumes a semi-plausible TL. Star Trek, let alone Psi Trek, has loads of superscience that would lead to very different prices for most items.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2019, 05:43 PM   #69
Prince Charon
 
Prince Charon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: [Psionics] [Space] Psi Trek - Worldbuilding

OK, I'm not exactly seeing a consensus, so I'm going to try to give something like a clear question, and hope that I'm doing it right. Also, note that I'm assuming that muon-catalyzed fusion is more useful for power than for weapons. I may be wrong about that.


When the setting has entered mature TL11^, which of these options would you prefer our Star Fleet expy to be using?

1. Matter-antimatter annihilation for main power and weapons. This is still my preferred option.

2. Antimatter-catalyzed fusion for power, but matter-antimatter annihilation for weapons.

3. Antimatter-catalyzed fusion for power and weapons.

4. Muon-catalyzed fusion for power, but matter-antimatter annihilation for weapons.

5. Muon-catalyzed fusion for power, but antimatter-catalyzed fusion for weapons.

6. Other (please specify and justify).
__________________
Warning, I have the Distractible and Imaginative quirks in real life.

"The more corrupt a government, the more it legislates."
-- Tacitus

Five Earths, All in a Row. Updated 12/17/2022: Apocrypha: Bridges out of Time, Part I has been posted.
Prince Charon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2019, 06:40 PM   #70
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [Psionics] [Space] Psi Trek - Worldbuilding

The antimatter warheads in Spaceships use antimatter catalyzed fusion.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
psionics, space, star trek, world building

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.