GURPS Undead and Spirits question?

[Rowan]

I have GURPS Undead and Spirits for 3E. I was thinking of using a shadow template in undead as an enemy, but is 3E's spirit form the 'same' in 4E? The thing about manipulating probability, or travelling to it's death site, etc?

Basically will I need to convert anything?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks. :)

[tylrlsaa]

Originally Posted by Rowan

I have GURPS Undead and Spirits for 3E. I was thinking of using a shadow template in undead as an enemy, but is 3E's spirit form the 'same' in 4E? The thing about manipulating probability, or travelling to it's death site, etc?

Basically will I need to convert anything?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks. :)

There's a Spirit Meta-trait in... Magic, I think? My magic 8-ball is cracked.

The Spirit advantage in 3rd Ed was 100 pts.
The Spirit Meta-trait in 4th is 250+, and some of the weirder abilities (probability control, for example) isn't a part of the trait.

So, yes. You're going to have to do some converting, but some has already been done. Unless somebody already converted all the Undead and Spirit packages and I missed a memo.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by tylrlsaa

There's a Spirit Meta-trait in... Magic, I think? My magic 8-ball is cracked.

try B263 8), Spirit is [261], Astral Entitiy is [171]

and does NOT have probility contol

not wirdabout it., Don't breath, don't eat, don't drink, don't sleep, immuinti to metbolic hazords, Insubatability, (always on, affects substanial) , invisiblity, and unaging.

nothier "unuseal", just expansive

[tylrlsaa]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

try B263 8), Spirit is [261], Astral Entitiy is [171]

and does NOT have probility contol

not wirdabout it., Don't breath, don't eat, don't drink, don't sleep, immuinti to metbolic hazords, Insubatability, (always on, affects substanial) , invisiblity, and unaging.

nothier "unuseal", just expansive

<nod> Yeah, that's what I mean. Probability control, teleporting to your gravesite, the wierd abilities that not every spirit has. As opposed to the "factory standard" abilities in the Meta-traits.

[Rowan]

/hangs head

Ick. I was afraid that was the answer. I guess I don't need the 3E spirit pack. I'll look at the shadow template again and see what I can do with it. Thanks again, all. :)

[roguebfl]

well M160 does have a Wraith as well. [233], though they are comporial (ther als have mummys, zombies, skillingtons & liches. Vampairs are in Basic

and M150 has Skull-Spirirst [224]

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

try B263 8), Spirit is [261], Astral Entitiy is [171]

Note that GURPS Fantasy has a much expanded set of spirit meta-traits on p. 134. It covers speech, visibility, materialization, magical powers, and telekinesis, which gets you many of the Spirit traits from 3/e, though not all.

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Note that GURPS Fantasy has a much expanded set of spirit meta-traits on p. 134. It covers speech, visibility, materialization, magical powers, and telekinesis, which gets you many of the Spirit traits from 3/e, though not all.

That's great to know. I'm working on aquiring Fantasy, all I have are the two 4th ed Basic books, and the Alternate world hard cover. :) I went and tried to do a conversion from Spirits 3E as best I could ignoring things I had no way of converting and this is what I've come up with. Comments appreciated :)

Shadow 89 Points.

Attributes : Doesn't Breath (20); Doesn't Sleep (20); Immunity to Metabolic Hazzards (30); Insubstantial: Affects substantial +100%, Always On -50% (80); Dark Aspected Magery 3 (18); Dark Vision (25); Dominance (20); Terror -6 to fright checks: Hand to Hand Attack Reach C -30%, Mana Sensitive -10%, Link +10% (54); Injury Tolerance: Unliving (25).

Disadvantages : Bloodlust (-10); Dependency: Life Energy Common, Daily (-30); Dread Light (-20); Dread Holy Symbols (-10); Intolerance: The Living (-10); Lifebane (-10); Weakness Sunlight: 1D/minute (-60); Unnatural (-50); Social Stigma: Monster (-15); Short Lifespan/4: Only HT is rolled against for loss and only HT is lost -80% (-8).

Innate Spells : Darkness 15- (8); Steal HT 14- (6); Steal ST 14- (6)

Quirks, Features, Taboos, Traits : Affected by Astral Block, Repel Spirits, and Turn Spirits (0); Can be turned with True Faith (0); Causes a slight chill (0).

notes:
-The original cost was 75 for the template, it's now about 89 points.

-Removed Unageing. I'm not 'sure' it made sense with how I simulated the spirit fade and needing to roll against HT, to avoid it every month, etc. And I gave the template short lifespan/4 with a -80% limitation. This can be 'bought off' if the spirit becomes more powerful, and unageing added to the template with earned experience. As it stands, though, the average created shadow will survive a few years if it's lucky and doesn't buy off it's disadvantage.

-Other versions of shadows that reflect them being little more than hungry bestial undead might add Uncontrollable Appetite, Draining, Addicition: Life Energy. Resitricted Diet might be added in place of Dependancy to reflect a shadow that can go considerably longer between feeding times if it needs to.

-Dependancy Mana Common, Constantly; might be another disadvantage to add to this template in fantasy genres.

[maa01]

What's the point in Dark aspected magery if he can't come to light anyway?

I'm also not sure if injury tolerance is compatible with insubtantiality.

But anyway nice writeup ;)

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by maa01

What's the point in Dark aspected magery if he can't come to light anyway?

Not terribly certian. It was in the original template in GURPS: Undead, and their was a blurb about Wizards that bacame Shadows, etc. The creature does have the racial spell Darkness at 15- which would let it cast a field of Darkness for one fatigue point then maintain it indefinitely if it wanted. Darkness is 2 to cast half to maintain, so with 15 the shadow would be able to generate darkness as long as it had some fatigue.

The original M.O. of the creature was to use it's darkness spell to make it an even better hider (it is visible but incorporeal), then strike with it's Terror ability. A -6 Fright check will get even a hardy 100 adventurer, and then use it's steal health or strength ability while it's prey is helpless.

And I supposed since it was a creature of Shadow and Magickal the magery made sense for the template. Hm...I suppose I could throw that out, drop the darkness spell, bump up the points needed for Steal HT and ST at 14-, and add in Stealth or Shadowing.

But it brings up a question. Would an incorporeal creature that doesn't breath, and can basically use it's Insubstantial advantage to walk or glide in any direction at it's move, even need stealth, if it just kept it's mouth shut and didn't speak? I'm wondering. :)

I'm also not sure if injury tolerance is compatible with insubtantiality.

I thought about that too. But I figured it can't be hurt normally...physical things pass right through it. But if a warrior or wizard has a spell or weapon that effected insubstatial, then they could thrust at it's 'vitals' and get a damage multiplier. That didn't make sense to me, since even though it's insubstantial, it's a spirit, even if it was hit by a weapon that effects spirits, it's got no heart to pierce, no kidneys to damage, no arteries to tear open, no liver to damage, no lungs to pierce, etc. So in that case I felt it made sense, in case it was combated by something able to effect it. :)

But anyway nice writeup ;)

Thanks! :) I appreciate the feedback. =D