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Old 04-06-2011, 02:37 PM   #21
Gizensha
 
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Default Re: Creating a Cursed Were-Creature?

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Originally Posted by Novembermike View Post
This is why it's bad. A trait like this is basically dependent on how often the GM feels like taking control of the character. All that happens is that at certain points the GM turns your PC into his NPC and you stop playing. Even if you're the one rolling the dice a character like this is going to be so limited by its traits when transformed that the GM can just tell you what to do.

The only thing this does is have you hand your character over to the GM at certain points in the adventure, and I don't think "Player Doesn't Play" is a good disadvantage.
Other than the potential triggering condition being more vague, and the actions being determined by the GM based on what's logical rather than a simple algorithm, how does that differ from Beserk, though?
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Old 04-06-2011, 03:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: Creating a Cursed Were-Creature?

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Originally Posted by Novembermike View Post
This is why it's bad. A trait like this is basically dependent on how often the GM feels like taking control of the character. All that happens is that at certain points the GM turns your PC into his NPC and you stop playing. Even if you're the one rolling the dice a character like this is going to be so limited by its traits when transformed that the GM can just tell you what to do.

The only thing this does is have you hand your character over to the GM at certain points in the adventure, and I don't think "Player Doesn't Play" is a good disadvantage.
A GM with a responsible player could easily let the player play the altered state. Of course, the minute the player plays the character in a way that is "out of character" for that altered state, especially in a way that benefits the character, the GM has learned something about the player and can pull the plug at any time. I know some players that have very much enjoyed switching between their main heroic (or anti-heroic) PC and a more violent, villainous, "evil", or bestial version of themselves. It's sort of like soap opera actors who finally get to play a "bad" person via a plot device like an "evil twin" or a "fake" (plastic surgery, etc.) or mind control after years of playing protagonists and/or victims. And I haven't GMed for players that weren't responsible enough to handle that and enjoy the challenge.
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Old 04-06-2011, 03:18 PM   #23
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Default Re: Creating a Cursed Were-Creature?

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Originally Posted by Gizensha View Post
Other than the potential triggering condition being more vague, and the actions being determined by the GM based on what's logical rather than a simple algorithm, how does that differ from Beserk, though?
Seizures, Flashbacks, and Combat Paralysis might be better examples of canonical disadvantages that take control of the character away from the player.
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Old 04-06-2011, 03:52 PM   #24
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Default Re: Creating a Cursed Were-Creature?

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Seizures, Flashbacks, and Combat Paralysis might be better examples of canonical disadvantages that take control of the character away from the player.
Berserk starts with limited control, and then goes rapidly downhill from there as you start axe murdering your companions. The fact that the player, at that point, is technically still "controlling" the character is sort of a moot point. Your gross actions are very VERY tightly scripted when berserk - you only get to pick the fine details of how you're murdering people.
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Old 04-06-2011, 03:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: Creating a Cursed Were-Creature?

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Originally Posted by Gizensha View Post
Other than the potential triggering condition being more vague, and the actions being determined by the GM based on what's logical rather than a simple algorithm, how does that differ from Beserk, though?
Well, Berserk triggers when you or a close friend is stabbed, and you should be able to calm down most of the time before anything too serious happens to a friend. This seems to trigger when you get picked last in football and is more "runs into the wilderness and kills a child" than "furiously attacks his enemies".

I probably wouldn't let a character take Berserk either though without a means of controlling it. It just puts the party in a bad situation where they might be forced to kill another party member.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:35 PM   #26
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Default Re: Creating a Cursed Were-Creature?

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Originally Posted by Novembermike View Post
I probably wouldn't let a character take Berserk either though without a means of controlling it. It just puts the party in a bad situation where they might be forced to kill another party member.
And that's certainly your prerogative as a GM, but there are plenty of already canonical disadvantages that take the PC out of play (hell, Disciplines of Faith: Monasticism requires the PC to spend 75% of his time sequestered away from the world).
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:06 PM   #27
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Default Re: Creating a Cursed Were-Creature?

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And that's certainly your prerogative as a GM, but there are plenty of already canonical disadvantages that take the PC out of play (hell, Disciplines of Faith: Monasticism requires the PC to spend 75% of his time sequestered away from the world).
And you should really be spending that 25% of your time on the adventure. That's supposed to be a monk that goes on a pilgrimage once a year and as such doesn't have tons of resources or contacts outside of the order. I can't see a reasonable way for a GM to send a player back to the monastery that wouldn't fit for any character.

The only disadvantages I found that were similar to this were repogrammable and slave mentality, and both of those are recommended to be limited to NPCs.
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:24 PM   #28
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Default Re: Creating a Cursed Were-Creature?

Just because you don't trust your players to run a character like the one proposed doesn't mean they couldn't. And if JCerwen has a GM that's willing to have a go, then good on him. The NPC in your game might very well be a PC in my game, even if you don't agree with it. And calling a character in a TV show an NPC without you being the actual writer of said show is arrogant and dismissive.
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Old 04-06-2011, 11:00 PM   #29
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Default Re: Creating a Cursed Were-Creature?

It's perfectly fine if he plays something like this, but even if he is I don't think it's worth points. The problem is that most other disadvantages have a constant disadvantage. This essentially just transitions him to a PC. There's no constant disadvantage, or even a disadvantage when the player is controlling the character. There's not even the disadvantage that a standard werewolf has where they need to lock themselves away at night because the equivalent would be locking himself away all the time.

It just has a lot of problems that are fundamental to the concept. If you want to play it and your GM is ok with it go ahead, but if everyone isn't completely on board with making this work then you're going to run into serious problems.

Also, I'm not sure what "And calling a character in a TV show an NPC without you being the actual writer of said show is arrogant and dismissive." is supposed to mean. The NPC/PC division is limited to roleplaying games. Organized stories tend to be based around primary/secondary characters where we see what the primary characters are doing and can figure out what the secondary characters are doing from that. 90% of the scenes with Oz were based around him walking into an active scene and doing something or just sitting there while the active characters interact. If you are going to put him in an RPG then he's pretty clearly NPC material (except for a couple episodes).
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:09 AM   #30
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Default Re: Creating a Cursed Were-Creature?

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Just because you don't trust your players to run a character like the one proposed doesn't mean they couldn't. And if JCerwen has a GM that's willing to have a go, then good on him. The NPC in your game might very well be a PC in my game, even if you don't agree with it. And calling a character in a TV show an NPC without you being the actual writer of said show is arrogant and dismissive.
In fact I'm the GM and a player asked me for help building this kind of character. I asked how to get a rules legal answer and also to initiate a discussion, since I wanted to avoid giving points for an ability that somehow might be beneficial after all in some very limited way. I think the player is responsible enough to handle it and enjoy it (I GM with a strong streak of the tragic in this game), I was attempting to ascertain any possible pitfalls.
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