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Old 08-22-2022, 11:47 PM   #1
Prince Charon
 
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Default [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

Like most televised science fiction, a lot of the 'science' in the Stargate setting is basically magic, and thinking about that lead me to trying to imagine a fantasy version of the setting, much like Warhammer 40,000 is a Dark SF version of Warhammer Fantasy.

The Stargates become powerful magic Artifacts of the Ancients (probably still interstellar portals, but they could be interdimensional instead, or as well), with the various energy weapons and such being more common magical devices. The Ascended are basically gods or powerful spirits even in the official setting, so no real change there beyond less pretending otherwise, though the Goa'Uld or whatever replaces them should probably be demons or magical monsters pretending to be gods. The Asgard are another matter, since the Norse gods in their own mythology did have an defined end, and were capable of dying, yet were still very much considered gods. They might be the High Elf equivalent, or might be replaced. The Nox are a bit too gentle to fit the faeries or most other fantasy or mythical beings that I'm aware of, but 'powerful, pacifist fae' is an interesting idea. The Jaffa or equivalent might be all one type of modified human as in canon, or might be several varieties.

My plan for the thread is to post various worldbuilding questions and work from the results, so some of the Stargate races and items may be replaced, or dropped entirely. There are a few places I could start, but I'm going with asking about the magic system, as that will determine a lot of the other worldbuilding. The question will be posted in a little bit.


Table of Contents

Magic System Question I
Magic System Question II
Magic System Question III
Magic System Question IV
Magic System Question V

Time Period Question I
Time Period Question II
Time Period Question II, revised
Time Period Question III

Goa'Uld Question I
Goa'Uld Question II

Stargate Command Question I
Stargate Command Question II
Stargate Command Question III
Stargate Command Question IV
Stargate Command Question V
Stargate Command Question VI
Stargate Command Question VII

Undead Question I

Elves Question I

Staff-weapon Question I

Stargate Question I
Stargate Question II
Stargate Question III

Teleportation Question I

Faster Than Light Question I
Faster Than Light Question II
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Old 08-22-2022, 11:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

Table of Contents, cont'd
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Old 08-22-2022, 11:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

Table of Contents, overflow
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Old 08-22-2022, 11:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

Magic System Question I

Which magic system or systems are used in this setting? Unless one system gets an overwhelming majority of the votes, there will probably be a main system and some less important ones, or the systems might vary by race or culture. Material Magic and Innate Magic will be present no matter which options win, but might be less important. Due to how broad these are, there will probably be a few follow-up Magic System questions, no matter which one wins. Examples and other supplementary information will be in parentheses.

1. Material Magic (Alchemy, Herb Lore, Natural Magic, Magical Engineering, and related concepts. Very fitting for this sort of setting, and probably needed to have Stargates, with naquadah being one of the most potent magical materials. Using Magical Engineering also has the advantage (if we want it) that the SGC-equivalent can believe that they're in a regular SF setting for longer.)

2. Magic as Powers (Innate Magic, Fixed Magic, Imbuements, Power Stunts as Spells, Sorcery, et cetra; technically Psionic Powers is a worked example, but this isn't a Psi setting. The Goa'Uld or equivalent probably have Innate Magic to justify their Possession ability, and likewise other magical life would have some Innate or Fixed Magic.)

3. Path/Book Magic (One of my preferred forms in general. The Thaumatology supplements Age of Gold and Alchemical Baroque have several variants of this system. Ritual Path Magic is a worked example, though not one that I like. Verbal Path Magic could be an interesting option, but I have not playtested it. The Magic of Stories (Pyramid 3/13, pp4-14) is a worked example that would need reworking to fit, but is at least conceptually interesting for a setting like this.)

4. Syntactic Magic (Symbol Magic is probably the most fitting form for this setting, given all the walls full of symbols on Goa'Uld vessels and facilities; Thaumatology: Urban Magics has a couple of interesting variants: Lapidism and Sacred Architecture. Some forms of Symbol Magic may overlap with Magical Engineering. Realm Magic (under Syntactic Magic on the wiki) will be among the options if this wins, but isn't IMHO as fitting.)

5. Magic as Social Connections (Specifically, social connections with spirits and other magical beings. Contacts, Allies (not necessarily as Modular Abilities), Patrons (Divine Favor, Totem Spirits, and such), temporary Favors, and 'Spirits as Hirelings' (basically like Favors but using negotiation and the hiring rules). Spirit Assisted Magic overlaps with this and other systems. If this wins, or just gets enough votes to be significant to the setting, the Ascended are most likely going to be far more active than they were in the show. Also, this may mean that Mana is replaced with Sanctity for this setting, or that both are present.)

6. A version of the Spell-based system (I'm not fond of the standard system, but it can be useful, and there are some interesting variants people have made. Magical Styles, the Celtic Tree Magic system of alternate colleges from Thaumatology pp42-47, Spells as familiarities, or a simplified version that doesn't play well with magical styles, et cetra.)

7. Chi Magic (Cinematic skills, techniques, and other abilities from GURPS Martial Arts, probably expanded (e.g. some of the spells from GURPS Magic could be converted by replacing the prerequisites with Trained By A Master, Weapon Master, or equivalent). May include Chi-based powers, as well. If this ends up the primary or only winner, the setting might have no equivalent to Mana or Sanctity.)

8. Low Magic (Also called Hedge Magic, among other things; pretty compatible with Material Magic and Path/Book Magic, among others.)

9. Something that I haven't considered (please specify).

Please remember to include the number(s) of your preferred option(s) when you vote.


(I considered including Formulaic Magic, but that is such a broad category that it covers most of the other options.)

*******

Answer: Magic as Powers has four votes in favor, and is thus the primary system for the setting (the kara'kesh might not exist at all here, or might be an amplifier or power source, rather than the source of the abilities listed - alternatively, it might be something that only younger, weaker, or less 'wizardly' Goa'Uld use); Material Magic has four votes for and one against, so it'll be pretty common; Path/Book Magic has three votes counting mine; Spell-based Magic has two votes; Syntactic Magic (which might be mixed with PBM), Social Connections as Magic, and Low Magic stand at one vote each (the original civilization of the Ancients having Low Magic universally would make sense, without needing many in modern times to have that, and some of the other systems could have been invented by them), and so exist but aren't common in the modern era (but could still pop up and surprise the PCs). The other options are somewhere between 'very rare' (possibly Ancient and mostly forgotten, or just not used much) and 'the aptly named Sir Not-appearing-in-this-film.'
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Old 08-23-2022, 01:59 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

Are you trying to make a fully fantasy world version, or are you thinking a magical portal is discovered on modern day Earth?
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Old 08-23-2022, 07:00 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

An interesting concept, and I agree that Stargate works well for something like this - aside from the Earth humans (Tau'ri), the majority of the technology (and the innate abilities of the inhuman species encountered) are basically magic. For this thread, would you prefer we stick with each topic as it comes along (so, just talk about magic systems right now), or would you be fine with something more freeform (say, going ahead and giving out some ideas for the Goa'uld, Jaffa, Asgard, etc)?
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Old 08-23-2022, 08:19 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

My preffered options are #1, #2, #3, and #6.



As you note, its just not stargate without the innate magic and material magic. I prefer #3 and #6 because I think we want a worked magic system that doesn't take too much of our bandwidth to adapt. 6 is probably the strongest way to do that, but #3 can be nice because its a little easier to tame.


I think the imbuments option of #2 is particularly interesting for a fantasy stargate setting.
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Old 08-23-2022, 12:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Are you trying to make a fully fantasy world version, or are you thinking a magical portal is discovered on modern day Earth?
Yes.

More seriously, my initial thought was the canon SGC but with magical portals and magical aliens and such, but one of the eventual votes (probably a while from now, as we have a few other things to vote on first) will be when the Stargate starts being used regularly, which might be some earlier era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
An interesting concept, and I agree that Stargate works well for something like this - aside from the Earth humans (Tau'ri), the majority of the technology (and the innate abilities of the inhuman species encountered) are basically magic. For this thread, would you prefer we stick with each topic as it comes along (so, just talk about magic systems right now), or would you be fine with something more freeform (say, going ahead and giving out some ideas for the Goa'uld, Jaffa, Asgard, etc)?
I'd like to primarily stick with each topic at a time, but if you have an idea for something to vote on later, or that needs discussing, feel free to post it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
My preffered options are #1, #2, #3, and #6.
OK, glad someone is voting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
As you note, its just not stargate without the innate magic and material magic. I prefer #3 and #6 because I think we want a worked magic system that doesn't take too much of our bandwidth to adapt. 6 is probably the strongest way to do that, but #3 can be nice because its a little easier to tame.


I think the imbuments option of #2 is particularly interesting for a fantasy stargate setting.
Interesting reasoning, and it does make sense.
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Old 08-24-2022, 04:47 AM   #9
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

I'd say for magic #1 for gates, ships and such, #2 for the abilities of the various species like the invisible out of pahes beings and such and maybe #5 for ascended unless you can do them with #2 magic as abilities. More than that makes it feel too complicated.

Since jaffa and such can be created alchemy (#1) can give powers (#2).
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Old 08-24-2022, 06:39 AM   #10
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

Something that I may or may not need to clarify (so I might as well, just in case): Skills or other aspects relating to systems that don't win (or even get votes, possibly) might still appear in some manner, such as Ritual Magic or Thaumatology being core skills for some Power Stunts As Spells styles, or Judo Art or Symbol Drawing being complementary skills for some Path/Book Magic styles. Complementary skills are probably more likely here. Likewise, a systems that isn't important to the setting in general might still appear as a one-off, or as the preferred method of an obscure race... or of course, Rule Zero applies and your GM may want to do something that diverges a fair bit from where this thread ends up going.

EDIT: To summarize the above, the votes determine emphasis and importance, but they don't mean that something with no votes will absolutely not appear in this setting at all, just that it's much less likely to, and less likely to be important.
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