My thoughts on Staves

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Icelander

That's my point. The leverage of a swing is similar to what you get from a bokken. Hence, sw+1 cr.

I disagree. A bokken has the hands maybe a foot apart, at most. The staff has the same reach (about three feet in front, actually MORE than a typical bokken) and twice the lever arm in back.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I disagree. A bokken has the hands maybe a foot apart, at most. The staff has the same reach (about three feet in front, actually MORE than a typical bokken) and twice the lever arm in back.

Yeah, but any move that takes advantage of that will necessiate adopting a less defensive stance.

I liked Kromm's suggestion of a +2 bonus that could be allocated to Staff Parry or damage, with the damage at sw cr and thr cr otherwise.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I'd assume that was Staff skill; used with Defensive Grip would be the 'hold it in the middle' thing that, I seem to recall, was created for stage performances?

Flowering with strikes?
I'd put that as more of an intimidation attack, also trains up striking speed.
More of a rapid strike with lower damage type of thing if actually used on an opponent...

Or do you mean just spinning it?, like a baton twirling majorette?

[nik1979]

Originally Posted by Icelander

So I reduce the damage of all weapons used with Staff* to thr+1 cr and sw+1 cr. That way, if a character wants to make a powerful swing, he has to use Two-Handed Sword skill for it and if he wants to thrust for thr+2 damage, he needs to use Spear skill or Reverse Grip.

Does the hive mind believe that I'm totally off here?

*Except the Qui Kun Ri Yue Dao, which already includes such a reduction and the Jo which is already at this damage.

Makes sense to me, the leverage of the staff and 2hs are supposed to be very different, with the 2-hs sacrificing speed and defense for added leverage.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Not sure about this. No question one can hit very hard with a bokken. I'm not convinced, though, that you shouldn't be able to hit harder with a staff. You get more leverage from your hands being farther apart, and you STILL get a three foot lever arm beyond that.

This is pretty much my feeling.

It's worth considering that maybe holding a staff down near the end with both hands, two-handed sword style, isn't the most efficient way of striking. I'd love to get someone trained with a staff whacking an impact-measuring surface to check, though. The push-pull action of a proper staff grip gets a really snappy impact; two hands down at the end, I'm not so sure. That 2-handed sword grip works much better when it's a blade, I think - you possibly lose a bit of leverage from hand spacing, but it's a freaking blade on the end. This might be why some warriors swore by weapons like the nagamaki and naginata - cutting blade on the end, but the leverage of the staff.

That's also why I think that +1 parry middle ground for certain staff-like weapons is a good idea. Combined with a thrusting attack or a swing using Defensive Attack most of the time to ensure you can keep parrying, you'd be golden. Then you wind up for a regular or Committed Attack when you get an opening, perhaps from a Feint.*

* If I write another martial artsy book in the future, remind me of this.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

That's also why I think that +1 parry middle ground for certain staff-like weapons is a good idea. Combined with a thrusting attack or a swing using Defensive Attack most of the time to ensure you can keep parrying, you'd be golden. Then you wind up for a regular or Committed Attack when you get an opening, perhaps from a Feint.*

* If I write another martial artsy book in the future, remind me of this.

Of course, Cabaret Chicks on Ice will already include new stats for some weapons. If none of the PTB disagreed with this opinion (that was expressed during the playtest), we might see this included there.

That way, someone with a duelling polearm or naginata can use Form Mastery to Parry with the Staff skill at +1 and the Polearm skill to make either thrusts or Defensive Attacks. Until an opening presents itself, in which case it's the Committed Attack swing for the win.