Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

[Boomerang]

Originally Posted by malloyd

That's one of the things that struck me as most nonsensical barring that killing of hundreds of millions option. Religions simply are not top down organizations, you aren't killing organized practice of them unless you start killing people at the level of leaders of individual congregations.

I'd also point out that pushing very hard to stamp out religion makes the local response even more nonsensical, and it's pretty stretched already. Mysterious supernatural forces are attempting to stamp out the true faith (and the right political ideology at the same time) using murderous extortion to compel obedience to commands they don't even explain. They must be benevolent time travelers! No. It's quite obvious they are evil demon lords or something equivalent, there is no way people are anything like this accepting.

They are not pushing hard, there are dozens of letters roughly every 2 months over the course of 3 decades. That is roughly 10,000 letters total, all highly specific and designed to target the key decision makers at pivotal times. The average person is rarely directly affected, rather indirectly affected through changes of policy many years later. If they pushed hard, threatening millions, they would get strong resistance, that is not the premise of the idea.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by Boomerang

They are not pushing hard, there are dozens of letters roughly every 2 months over the course of 3 decades. That is roughly 10,000 letters total, all highly specific and designed to target the key decision makers at pivotal times. The average person is rarely directly affected, rather indirectly affected through changes of policy many years later. If they pushed hard, threatening millions, they would get strong resistance, that is not the premise of the idea.

The letters are going to create initial political chaos

The place of religion in places with political chaos is usually dug in and held to tightly, and blaming other religions for the political problems; the potential for religious warfare is likely to strengthen centralized religions unless the heads thereof are targets, too, and to radicalize the more unified non-centralized faiths.

Likewise, racism tends to flare in political chaos.

None of this requires a person from the future.

It does imply a current to the setting entity capable of getting good spying on the "dozens" of targets, and having an agenda, and a set of tools to carry it out. That could be only mildly future tech (most such folk had cell phones in their cars and landline phones in their offices... single-chip bugs could use the line for power and data while the phone is on hook.

Most leader types tend to have very predictable schedules.

The kills tend to be less pat; but again, it needs no futuretech, no precognition, just a death windown that cannot be predicted.

If the political leaders start doing out of character things, unrest, possibly even rebellion can ensue.

Likewise, if religious leaders start going missing or turning up dead, it will create unrest more than compliance.... expect religion to regress and become reactionary and possibly violent.

To be honest, it sounds like a group of fringe religious types having raided the NSA store room...

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Boomerang

They are not pushing hard, there are dozens of letters roughly every 2 months over the course of 3 decades. That is roughly 10,000 letters total, all highly specific and designed to target the key decision makers at pivotal times.

Then I think the effect is being vastly overestimated. A few hundred decisionmakers a year are maybe influenced, simply doesn't get you very many massive changes. In some ways it seems to subscribe to the Great Man theory of history on steroids, where everything is the result of the desires of a few individual leaders, but in reality leaders either pick between a few options that are fairly popular among the people they are leading, or they get deposed. This is [especially] true in a setting where you have established the masses [know] this is happening, and are likely to assume a leader who suddenly starts doing something different is subject to extortion.

Which I think is still the other hole here. The scale is less the issue with popular response than the fact it's based in murderous extortion and people know that. This is necessary for it to work at all (leaders get threatening letters all the time, they aren't going to change their actions as a result unless it is pretty openly known the death threats will really happen), but also means people are watching for it. Any leader who attempts a substantial change from prior policy loses credibility since the public will assume he's being extorted, even if he isn't, and start ignoring him.

[Boomerang]

@ Malloyd

My idea is intended to be a setting for an RPG. The details around the Sender are deliberately kept vague. It is up to the GM to decide who the Sender is, what their motivations might be, and how successful they are in achieving their goals. If we work on the assumption that history doesn’t change much at a macro level it sounds like a boring game to me. What is there for the PCs to investigate?

If I were GM for the letter scenario I don’t think I would subscribe to great man theory, more like despicable villain theory. If Putin was ordered by letter to give up his invasion plans and resign the presidency in the months prior to the invasion of Ukraine what would happen? He would probably refuse, and die, and be replaced by someone just as hellbent on conquest. But when they receive a letter to the same effect two months later it will be taken more seriously. Whatever happens from here is difficult to predict, I expect the Russian government would be thrown into chaos and the invasion would never happen. Whatever happens I expect it would be profoundly different from our reality, and that’s only 2 letters. Imagine 10,000 letters over 3 decades…

[jason taylor]

The monarch always chooses the successor in pectore. It is kept in a safe with three locks under close guard. The three keys are held by three counselors. Upon his death or abdication the safe is opened in front of witnesses and the new ruler chosen.

[Astromancer]

I remember a science fiction story, I think was written in the 1950s, where gambling was a major cultural aspect of a society. Random features were everywhere. However, when the militaristic tries to conquer them the militarists discover that gamblers can play the odds.

Game Theory allowed the gamblers to run rings around the militarests.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

The monarch always chooses the successor in pectore. It is kept in a safe with three locks under close guard. The three keys are held by three counselors. Upon his death or abdication the safe is opened in front of witnesses and the new ruler chosen.

Of course one of the real advantages of having a designated successor is that in the event of the unexpected death of the monarch, say in battle, everybody is pretty clear on who to take orders from in the immediate crisis.

I suppose a hybrid system might work (one of those counselors is automatically regent, but has to give it up within some number of months to the real heir). As long as you are sure he's honest enough not to stage a coup.

[David Johnston2]

Limited Franchises

Only men
Only women
Only people who have served a term in the military
Only people over the age of 65
Only people who are married
Only people who have been parents
Only people who have living descendants
Only people who pass standardized testing
Only practicing members of a certain religion
Only descendants of the first population of colonists
Only people with a brain implant that can access the national computer net.
Only people with supernatural powers
Only people who pay income tax
Only landowners
Only farm owners
Only people willing to endure an ordeal to prove they really care about voting.

[Varyon]

The Managed Democracy from Helldivers (I assume both games, although I've only played the second) is another exotic government of sorts. Ostensibly, rather than directly voting ("Managed Democracy gives true freedom: the Freedom From Choice"), the system uses algorithms to determine people's stances on issues based on their responses to a variety of online questionnaires and uses that to make decisions on which representatives to vote for. The fact everyone at least acts like they are super patriotic (and there's a lot of negativity toward "dissidents") implies filling in the "wrong" answers on said questionnaires has rather negative consequences for the citizen. There's also a Social Credit System in place; one of the mechanics on the player's Super Destroyer comments on increasing her Citizenship Rank by reporting some dissident statements she overheard.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Limited Franchises

Only men
Only women
Only people who have served a term in the military
Only people over the age of 65
Only people who are married
Only people who have been parents
Only people who have living descendants
Only people who pass standardized testing
Only practicing members of a certain religion
Only descendants of the first population of colonists
Only people with a brain implant that can access the national computer net.
Only people with supernatural powers
Only people who pay income tax
Only landowners
Only farm owners
Only people willing to endure an ordeal to prove they really care about voting.

Only dogs can vote or stand for office. That way we can have honesty in politics.