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Old 01-05-2011, 04:58 AM   #1
vicky_molokh
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Default Commando Battlesuits vs. SM+4 space fighters - WTF?

Greetings, all!

I was trying to choose a battlesuit for the Orz space marines, and casually decided to try out the Commando battlesuit from UT. So, it has DR 105/75. I decided to check that against a Kzer-Za autonomous fighter (SM+4, 1 layer of Nanocomposite, streamlined mostly to give a -1 to be hit from the front/back). Now, I did want the 'suits to be badass compared to the stuff other races' infantry are carrying, but this is just ridiculous:
A lightly armored aerospace fighter has dDR3, or DR30. An SM+0 battlesuit of the same TL has DR100 on the torso and head, 70 on the limbs, and has place for the marine and has life support installed and has motors good enough for Super Jump 2 and an impressive Sensor Array and Cloaking. How come?

Don't get me wrong, I wanted them to be good enough to have a decent survival chance while trying to board an enemy craft, but at this point they're so cool that if I just fit them with a decent space thruster and a long-range weapon, they might be able to take on a light craft such as the SM+6 Skiff.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:04 AM   #2
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Default Re: Commando Battlesuits vs. SM+4 space fighters - WTF?

Personal armour DR does not compare with spaceship armour.

I don't know why, but this appears to be a design decision.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:48 AM   #3
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Default Re: Commando Battlesuits vs. SM+4 space fighters - WTF?

The change from Third Edition to Fourth still leaves a whole freaking lot to be desired for TL9+. IMO, we took a huge step forward in fantasy gaming and every other genre TL8 and below with Fourth, but a huge step back in many genres at TL9+.

Vehicle Design System will hopefully take care of this.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:14 AM   #4
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Commando Battlesuits vs. SM+4 space fighters - WTF?

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Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
The change from Third Edition to Fourth still leaves a whole freaking lot to be desired for TL9+. IMO, we took a huge step forward in fantasy gaming and every other genre TL8 and below with Fourth, but a huge step back in many genres at TL9+.

Vehicle Design System will hopefully take care of this.
Maybe, maybe not. Ogre bowmen seem to be comparable in both damage and accuracy to light artillery. This would be playable if not the weight and minST of artillery weapons.

TL9 personal missiles are kinda scary too, though not as much.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:11 AM   #5
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Default Re: Commando Battlesuits vs. SM+4 space fighters - WTF?

The commando battlesuit obviously has a lot more than 15% of its mass as actual armor. It's probably closer to 75%. Also, battlesuit (and probably other personal) armor is more expensive than vehicular armor (Pulver estimated a 4x price discrepancy when I asked this same question a while back, I believe). This yields armor that is effectively 1 TL better. Finally, a commando battlesuit is a lot denser than a typical spaceship, and a dense object will get more DR from the same mass of armor as a less dense object of equal mass.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Commando Battlesuits vs. SM+4 space fighters - WTF?

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The commando battlesuit obviously has a lot more than 15% of its mass as actual armor. It's probably closer to 75%. Also, battlesuit (and probably other personal) armor is more expensive than vehicular armor (Pulver estimated a 4x price discrepancy when I asked this same question a while back, I believe). This yields armor that is effectively 1 TL better. Finally, a commando battlesuit is a lot denser than a typical spaceship, and a dense object will get more DR from the same mass of armor as a less dense object of equal mass.
If the Commando Battlesuit weights roughly 150lbs, then it's 50% meat. Plus life support. Plus the ESM system. Plus the engines for all the limbs. Plus whatever I didn't think of in precise terms, such as whatever heatsinks are needed for IR cloaking.

As for the 4 priced armor, how do I translate this armor type into Spaceships if I have the money to spend?
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: Commando Battlesuits vs. SM+4 space fighters - WTF?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
If the Commando Battlesuit weights roughly 150lbs, then it's 50% meat. Plus life support. Plus the ESM system. Plus the engines for all the limbs.

As for the 4 priced armor, how do I translate this armor type into Spaceships if I have the money to spend?
I don't have my books with me, but I thought the Commando Battlesuit was heavier than that. Still, I was talking about the weight of the actual battlesuit, not the weight of the person+battlesuit.

As for the armor, just multiply the price of the armor by 4 and increase its DR one step.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: Commando Battlesuits vs. SM+4 space fighters - WTF?

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I don't have my books with me, but I thought the Commando Battlesuit was heavier than that. Still, I was talking about the weight of the actual battlesuit, not the weight of the person+battlesuit.
The suit is 150lbs and $80k. The helmet is 15lbs and $10k. Total roughly 165lbs suit + about as much for the marine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy View Post
As for the armor, just multiply the price of the armor by 4 and increase its DR one step.
Sounds workable, I think (didn't check the numbers). Weird that none of the SS books mention the option.
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:27 AM   #9
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Default Re: Commando Battlesuits vs. SM+4 space fighters - WTF?

Spaceship DR is very low compared to purpose-built military hardware, due to the assumptions spaceships makes about surface area and volume. Beyond that, personal armor DR in GURPS is extremely high.
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: Commando Battlesuits vs. SM+4 space fighters - WTF?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Greetings, all!

I was trying to choose a battlesuit for the Orz space marines, and casually decided to try out the Commando battlesuit from UT. So, it has DR 105/75. I decided to check that against a Kzer-Za autonomous fighter (SM+4, 1 layer of Nanocomposite, streamlined mostly to give a -1 to be hit from the front/back).
Fighters shouldn't be SM+4.
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