01-19-2022, 06:39 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Are there RAW rules for "Gravity-Assisted" Bashing?
Does anyone know if there are RAW rules for "gravity assisted" brawling attacks, where you pick up a heavy object with one or both hands and then smash it down on your victim using ST to boost its effective falling speed.
Specifically NOT asking about Shield Bashes, Slams, Dropping objects on people from above, or Manhandling victims. If there are no RAW rules, my proposed solution is to treat the impact as an ordinary Collision based on distance fallen and object mass, plus the attacker's normal Swinging damage to represent the extra acceleration. Last edited by Pursuivant; 01-19-2022 at 06:43 AM. |
01-19-2022, 06:44 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama
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Re: Are there RAW rules for "Gravity-Assisted" Bashing?
I think that is a regular attack, with a a heavy object. As a heavy object it may have a damage bonus (+2 or more) and if it is really heavy it may need an all out attack strong (adding more damage) just to represent the fact that the character making the attack need everything just to rise and bring down the heavy object/weapon.
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01-19-2022, 07:11 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Are there RAW rules for "Gravity-Assisted" Bashing?
Quote:
After all, if you go to the trouble of taking 3+ seconds to do a "Clean and Jerk" power lift with a rock which counts as Heavy Encumbrance, there ought to be a better damage payoff than just a punching attack with damage bonuses. Obviously, its usually a really stupid melee attack, but "Multiple Ready maneuvers followed by All-Out Attack to drop the rock on a seemingly-stunned hero" is a classic cinematic move for big dumb mooks. (The classic countermove is, of course, All-Out Defense (Acrobatic Dodge) or Acrobatic Kick to the attacker's Groin or Face.) |
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01-19-2022, 07:50 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Are there RAW rules for "Gravity-Assisted" Bashing?
Rules for dropping objects are on B431, in the collision section. Assume the object held overhead falls a yard to attack the top of the target; so, a velocity of 5.
If it's a very heavy object, then the attacker probably can't add a lot to its velocity -- if they even have a handhold suitable for yanking the object back down instead of holding it up. If it took three seconds to do that clean-and-jerk, then they moved the object one or two yards in those three seconds, so not even +1 yd/sec. That net lifting force is against gravity, of course. So if you want to be really generous to the brick, then assume they've just demonstrated that they can accelerate that object with a force sufficient to move it one (or two) yards in two (or three) seconds -- let's say G + 2 ft/s^2, and that they can apply that force all the way down to impact as well. So rather than using the table for falling velocity, calculate it with a "local gravity" equal to G (1, in this equation) plus the brick's force of G + 2/32 = 2.0625, or a velocity of 6.6 yd/sec instead of 5. As a simple hack, maybe just call it +1 to the result from the falling velocity table on B431. See past threads for weird results from the falling damage rules. You could also just use the Throwing rules on B355 and treat it as throwing the object at the target, even if it is at a range of 1 yard straight down. |
01-19-2022, 08:23 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Are there RAW rules for "Gravity-Assisted" Bashing?
If it's light enough to wield, the effect of gravity isn't enough to really add damage at GURPS levels of resolution (particularly considering GURPS ST-based damage is probably too high to start with) - which is why you don't have to define if an attack is going along with gravity (for a bonus) or going against it (for a penalty). If it's too heavy to wield, gravity is the determining factor - the difference between dropping it on the target and swinging it down is miniscule in terms of damage (although the latter may be more accurate). There's probably a middle ground where an object is a bit too heavy to wield but you can move it faster by adding your muscle strength to gravity. Offhand, I'd say that, for objects that are too heavy to wield (you don't meet MinST) but that you can lift above your head (within BL if using 1 hand, within BLx2 if using 2 hands), you can lift them up and slam them down on the target, dealing the higher of thr+2 (maybe thr+3 if it's above BL, requiring two hands) and whatever damage the object would deal from falling from that height*. This is going to be pretty obvious, however, so +1 or even +2 to the target's defense would be appropriate.
*The height here can probably be set as being a base of half the height of the attacker's SM (so 1 yard for SM+0, 1.5 yards for SM+1, etc; if your arms are long or short for your SM, use the SM they are actually scaled to). To this, add (attacker's effective height)-(target's effective height).
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GURPS Overhaul Last edited by Varyon; 01-19-2022 at 08:28 AM. |
01-20-2022, 11:10 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Are there RAW rules for "Gravity-Assisted" Bashing?
Quote:
Your proposed rules look good and your math confirms my intuition, so I'll use your solution with the option of using the better of Acceleration due to local G +1 yard or Acceleration due to local G + basic thrust damage. Allow the attack to be targeted using the better of Brawling or Dropping skill. Thanks! That's exactly what I was trying to avoid. The throwing rules assume a mostly horizontal trajectory where much of the inherent force of a heavy object is lost because you're literally working at cross purposes to gravity rather than working with it. |
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01-20-2022, 11:28 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Are there RAW rules for "Gravity-Assisted" Bashing?
Quote:
I like Anaraxes' solution for damage, but with the potential for doing a bit of extra damage if your basic thrusting damage is sufficiently high, which rewards characters with Striking ST rather than just Lifting ST. Your point about giving a bonus to Defense rolls is excellent and fits perfectly with genre conventions. "Bash them with a rock" is a brutal finishing move against a helpless foe but a losing move against an opponent free to defend themselves. |
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01-21-2022, 12:57 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Are there RAW rules for "Gravity-Assisted" Bashing?
Finished house rule incorporating shameless rip-offs of Anaraxes' & Varyon's good ideas:
Smash Them With a Rock A classic finishing move for brawlers is to bash a downed and helpless foe with a big rock or similar heavy object. If an object is too heavy for you to effectively wield as a melee weapon (i.e., you don't meet the ST requirement to use it), you can take one or more Ready maneuvers to heft it and then smash it down on your foe using an All-Out Attack. It takes a Ready maneuver and one hand to heft an object within your BL, or 2 hands and Ready maneuvers equal to the object's Encumbrance level +1 for heavier objects. A successful Lifting skill roll halves readying time, rounding down, to a minimum of 1 second. Optionally, you can take an extra Ready maneuver and make a ST or Lifting skill roll briefly heft an object overhead at -2 per encumbrance level beyond No Encumbrance. No roll is needed if the item weighs less than your BL x 2. Once the object is in position you can smash it down from yards equal to half your height, rounding down; 1.5x your height if you hoisted it overhead, or 1x if you hoisted the item overhead but can't get full arm extension. Treat this as an All-Out Attack (Strong) which uses the better of your Brawling or Dropping skill. The attack can be Blocked or Dodged but not Parried. If you foe can sense the attack coming they get a +2 bonus to Active Defenses. Your foe must be in your hex or an adjacent hex you can reach using an ordinary Melee or Unarmed attack. If the object hits it does normal Collision damage for a fall (p. B431) from the drop height minus yards equal to the defender's effective height, plus 1 yard per 1 G. At 1 G velocity for an object dropped from a height of 1 yard is 5 yards/second, for a total velocity of 6. Alternately, the attack inflicts Punch damage +2* for objects up to your BL, +1 HP per level of Encumbrance the item imposed beyond No Encumbrance, if that would do more damage. *+2 damage is assumed from All-Out Attack (Strong). Add +1 per die of basic punching damage for very strong creatures. Example: Thog the Cinematic Neanderthal wishes to smash a puny human lying helpless at his feet. Lacking better weapons, he hefts a handy 100 lb. rock. Thog has ST 14, BL 39. Since the rock is within his Medium encumbrance level it takes him 3 seconds to ready it, bringing it to waist height. On his next turn he makes a successful roll vs. ST-2 roll to hoist the rock overhead, allowing him to drop it from 3 yards (his height in yards x1.5). The turn after that, he can finally bash his victim. The rock has an effective velocity of 9 (8 for a 3 yard fall, +1 yard) and HP 38. If it hits it does (((38 x 9)/100) = 3.42) 3d HP of crushing damage. This is far more than the alternate damage of 1d+3 (2d-1) HP the attack would inflict. Admittedly, Thog would probably have done more damage over 5 melee rounds had he just grabbed a 1 lb. rock (1 turn to Ready) and used it as a Brass Knuckles to enhance his punching damage over 4 consecutive All-Out Attack (Strong) maneuvers, but sometimes you just have to send those pesky smooth-brows a message. Last edited by Pursuivant; 01-21-2022 at 01:11 AM. |
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