"Pure" historical roleplaying?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnifex

Oddly, unless I were to add vampires, I can't find any interested players.

<shrug> I roleplay to get things I can not get in the real world. The Mongol version of the Iowa caucases doesn't qualify. Vampires probably wouldn't satisfy my objections.

[Lord Carnifex]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

<shrug> I roleplay to get things I can not get in the real world. The Mongol version of the Iowa caucases doesn't qualify. Vampires probably wouldn't satisfy my objections.

It might make a better board game.

[ULFGARD]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnifex

For a couple of years, I've wanted to run a one-shot centered around the kurltai held after the death of Genghis Khan, with intrigue and family squabbles as tradition clashes with contemporary political realities. Batu is perhaps the most capable military commander and worthiest heir of Tamujin, but he's the son of Tamujin's eldest and least favored son. Mongka is a reasonable figure, but not universally popular and doesn't have his father's will of iron. Sabotai or Jebe would be natural choices for Grand Khan, but while both are capable generals and beloved "dogs of war", neither one is actually family. Kublai has a political savvy that is almost Chinese, but he lives too much in his brother's shadow. Meanwhile, the respite is allowing the Turks and the Hungarians time to regroup and re-arm, putting the conquest of the Western limb of Eurasia in jeopardy...

Oddly, unless I were to add vampires or Klingons, I can't find any interested players.

This sounds interesting! And it's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about.

[Lord Carnifex]

Well, it fascinates me, anyway. For about a year, the fate of three civilizations waited on this power struggle. Armies crossed continents just so the major players could attend. And, despite the comparison to the modern American system, the whole thing could have featured suspicious hunting accidents, assassinations, dueling (and when these guys dueled, sometimes the weapon of choice was thousand-man cavalry formations) or even civil war. There was no constitution or body of laws governing proceedings, just a vague sense of tradition. Tradition which ruled out some of the more powerful and dominant factions, relegating them to kingmakers - unless one of them decided to abandon tradition and seize power.

At the same time, the whole thing is incredibly insular. These guys were brothers, and sons, and old friends of the family. Family feuds could erupt at any time. Batu was snubbed because although he'd brought the most wealth and land to the empire, his father had betrayed the family years before, tainting Batu and Kublai's reputations. The fate of continents could rest on who snubbed who at someone's wedding, or who owed what to someone's mom, or who took the best horse for a joyride at the age of eight. It's a little like squabbling family members showing up for the reading of grandad's will, only with armies camped out on the front porch.

And, although we in the Western world know what the results were, no one really knows what happened at the event itself. There's no record of plots hatched, machinations foiled, angry words spoken. If one is willing to deviate from history, the field is wide open for interpretation. Goad a drunk brother into making a drunken threat, only to be back-handed and dressed down by Mom, and he looses prestige. Refuse to give an uncle one's fine horse and find yourself condemned to commanding ten men in Siberia.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnifex

Well, it fascinates me, anyway. For about a year, the fate of three civilizations waited on this power struggle. Armies crossed continents just so the major players could attend. And, despite the comparison to the modern American system, the whole thing could have featured suspicious hunting accidents, assassinations, dueling (and when these guys dueled, sometimes the weapon of choice was thousand-man cavalry formations) or even civil war. There was no constitution or body of laws governing proceedings, just a vague sense of tradition. Tradition which ruled out some of the more powerful and dominant factions, relegating them to kingmakers - unless one of them decided to abandon tradition and seize power.

At the same time, the whole thing is incredibly insular. These guys were brothers, and sons, and old friends of the family. Family feuds could erupt at any time. Batu was snubbed because although he'd brought the most wealth and land to the empire, his father had betrayed the family years before, tainting Batu and Kublai's reputations. The fate of continents could rest on who snubbed who at someone's wedding, or who owed what to someone's mom, or who took the best horse for a joyride at the age of eight. It's a little like squabbling family members showing up for the reading of grandad's will, only with armies camped out on the front porch.

And, although we in the Western world know what the results were, no one really knows what happened at the event itself. There's no record of plots hatched, machinations foiled, angry words spoken. If one is willing to deviate from history, the field is wide open for interpretation. Goad a drunk brother into making a drunken threat, only to be back-handed and dressed down by Mom, and he looses prestige. Refuse to give an uncle one's fine horse and find yourself condemned to commanding ten men in Siberia.

"If you ever go against the family again you will get gold poured down your throat".

Or was that to obvious a comparison?

[Lord Carnifex]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

"If you ever go against the family again you will get gold poured down your throat".

Or was that to obvious a comparison?

The incident I remember was pouring silver in the ears, but I'd have to look that up. When your religion forbids you from shedding a king's blood, but you wind up with superfluous kings, you have to get creative.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnifex

The incident I remember was pouring silver in the ears, but I'd have to look that up. When your religion forbids you from shedding a king's blood, but you wind up with superfluous kings, you have to get creative.

Well they could always have just used a spare bowstring. I suspect they had a taste for creativity.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by whswhs

It's hard to sell those to my players, whether historical or contemporary; they prefer the fantastic genres most of the time. But there weren't any fantastic elements in my campaign Salle d'Armes, set in France in 1716. Aspects of the campaign reflected such things as the War of the Spanish Succession, the financial schemes of John Law, and the Old Pretender's sojourn in France. Unfortunately I never managed to have them run into Maurice de Saxe. . . .

Bill Stoddard

Of all your games, that one and the (not historical) Zimiamvia sound the coolest to me.

[Mark Skarr]

"Pure" Historical Roleplaying, to me, is less interesting than Fantasy. And anyone who knows me, understands what I just said.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who really enjoy it, for the simulation, but I'd rather clean the toilet to give the cat a bath.

If I had my choice of doing Romance of the Three Kingdoms as a historically-accurate game or not, I'd go with Ikki Tousen-style school girl lesbians, boobs and super-powers. Partially because I'm a pervert, but partially because it's AWESOME. If I were doing a wild west game, it would be more Cowboys & Aliens and less True Grit.

If I want something that's historically accurate, I'll read a book. If I'm gaming, I want to do something that's fun. If you find PHRPGing fun, then by all means, keep doing it. But, I'd rather read about mecha, and super heroes and amazing abilities than researching what my 13th century character should be doing to fit into a historical game.

And not get the plague.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

"And not get the plague.

Let me add a note that I am virtually incapable of romanticizing the historical past.

A fantasy world where magic probably does "destroy the medieval economy" (as if a medieval economy was something worth preserving) is more easy to swallow.