[Fantasy] When not to kill the Orcs

[BaHalus]

Since half-orcs and half-elves aren't steriles (is that the correct word?), these aren't equivalent. Half-elves and half-orcs can both breed. And, even if they could't have children, they would still be closely related to humans as donkey, horses and zebras are closely related (they wouldn't breed if they weren't close to each other. No centaurs and mermaids coming from interespecific relationships.)

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

The statement that everybody is scum in real life seems contradicted by even cursory observation, the idea that amorality equals depth seems more than a little suspect, and always remember that you're not playing with the player characters, you're playing with their players.

In real life, everybody is eager to believe all sorts of things that ennoble their own particular prejudices over everyone else's.

Doesn't make them any better. A cursory examination of history reveals that real selfless nobility is rarer than hen's teeth.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

The moderator's comment you reproduced seemed directed at accusations of mental deficiency and retardation in particular, not more general questions such as the role of escapism in fantasy role playing, but if you feel you've been warned off the whole topic, sorry for bringing it up.

I'm sorry for even trying to continuing any conversation. Odds are that I'll be banned for that anyway.

Consider this my last post in this thread, as I'd like to avoid bans.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by LemmingLord

in gurps, orc stats usually define them with many more redeeming qualities... more complicated characters...

Really? You get that from GURPS Fantasy p.110 stating them as having , Sadidm(12) along with Bad Temper (12) and Callous.

What redemptive qualities are you seeing?

[Novembermike]

The problem I have is that if orcs are just noble savage humans (including mating across species) then why not just use savage humans? It just seems lazy to try to use this other species for the job.

[Kalzazz]

I tend to allow orks any alignment, but they tend to usually be fodder sorts (of course, humans also tend to be fodder sorts . . . . the only races that aren't usually encountered as fodder are like dragons or such)

They do I admit tend to show up much more often in fantasy games because a ST 10 human with a normal weapon tends to be quite weak . . . . it is very easy to justify a strong ork with a normal weapon who can actually touch PCs through armor

If the game is modern day then just give them AK-47s and it is all good

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Novembermike

The problem I have is that if orcs are just noble savage humans (including mating across species) then why not just use savage humans? It just seems lazy to try to use this other species for the job.

Maybe this will clarify: "The problem I have is that if tigers are just solitary jungle lions (including mating across species) then why not just use jungle lions? It seems lazy to try to use this other species for the job."

Why use orcs? For the same reason you'd use tigers.

[pnewman]

Originally Posted by Michael Hopcroft

Orcs in most fantasy campaigns exist for only one reason -- to die at the end of the adventurers' swords.
Players with modern sensibilities are hopefully a little bit uncomfortable with having a situation where genocide is the appropriate response to a problem. My question is whether there are circumstances where exterminating the Orcs is not the way to solve the problem. A reason that it is good or necessary to leave some alive or not to go into their camps and slaughter the children.

I thought Orcs existed to try to show players who don't think killing is the appropriate response to a situation how wrong they are. Orcs are always evil to encourage people to kill them so that people will realize that killing killers is a good thing. These orcs are a stand in for a harsh on crime, pro death penalty argument. [1]

Other orcs are just green skinned humans whose bad behavior is no more extreme than that of some historical humans. These orcs are a stand in for a "People aren't intrinsically bad, its just a question of how they were raised" softer on crime, anti death penalty argument.

Therefore the answer to your question in the campaign should depend on which side of the argument you are promoting.

"The only good orcs I ever met were dead." General Sheridan [slightly paraphrased]

[1] The merits, or lack thereof, of this argument do not belong in this forum, but that doesn't realize that we shouldn't recognize the thinly veiled subtext of 'orcs'.

[LemmingLord]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Really? You get that from GURPS Fantasy p.110 stating them as having , Sadidm(12) along with Bad Temper (12) and Callous.

What redemptive qualities are you seeing?

Hmmm... I haven't seen that write up.. i thought in the fantasy folk from 3rd edition they seemed to have less evil traits... maybe it is just that I always make my own write ups of races and just always intended all sentient species to be humanesque.. is that lazieness? maybe... :)

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Really? You get that from GURPS Fantasy p.110 stating them as having , Sadidm(12) along with Bad Temper (12) and Callous.

What redemptive qualities are you seeing?

Well, GURPS doesn't exactly prohibit buying off racial traits, usually.