[Fantasy] When not to kill the Orcs

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Is there a point to it?

As far as I know, it's just an excuse not to have to think about any entertainment. The people arguing for escapism are also the people arguing that Spiderman is a valid form of entertainment.

More power to them. Just keep them away from me.

The point is having fun. But the why you keep describe it like a mental deficaicy is down right insulting.

BTW you seem to have fallen in this trap: http://www.sfcrowsnest.com/articles/...them-15938.php

[Icelander]

Moderator: Well, this generated complaints. It is fairly clear that this community does not deem digs about mental deficiency and retardation acceptable. Please drop the topic at once.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by KevinJ

So... Your orcs are just ugly humans.

That is a pretty good way to do it, actually.

There are plenty of historical precedents for cultures as violent and predatory towards outsiders as FRPG orcs.

There are plenty of historical precedents for folks who hated their neighbours like FRPG folks hate orcs.

In many FRPGs, orcs are fully inter-fertile with humans.

So yeah, the orcs can be just an race of humans in a rather vicious and racist conflict with their neighbors. As long as the players are ok with grey and gritty RP, this can be fine fun. When your culture vigorously expects you to treat an entire race as vermin, there is room for great heroism.

[BaHalus]

I disagree with the above (Icelander's post). And by the way: I really like spiderman and comics in general and consider it a good entertainment.

Not everybody wants diversion to be complicated. Some people want to reserve this role for work, study and other parts of personal life. There are normal people, not retarded ones.

I know many intelligent people that like to have fun with simpler things.

But it seems a waste of RPG (especially Gurps) to play only with bidimensional orcs and elves.

It does not make orcs work as only ugly humans.

(Sure, since humans, orcs and elves can breed, They are actually the same species from biological point of view, even with the bidimensional approach, they could be considered only ugly humans. I actually considered a setting with this configuration with humanity splitting in true biological races inspired in fantasy races).

[Purple Haze]

Originally Posted by BaHalus

(Sure, since humans, orcs and elves can breed, They are actually the same species from biological point of view, even with the bidimensional approach, they could be considered only ugly humans. I actually considered a setting with this configuration with humanity splitting in true biological races inspired in fantasy races).

Donkeys and horses can breed they aren't remotely the same species. They even have different numbers of chromosomes. There are crosses with zebras and "Przewalski's horse" which have chromosome counts that are different again.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Is there a point to it?

As far as I know, it's just an excuse not to have to think about any entertainment. The people arguing for escapism are also the people arguing that Spiderman is a valid form of entertainment.

More power to them. Just keep them away from me.

So, what are you doing playing fantasy role-playing games where magic and nonhuman sapient races exist that don't in the real world? There's no escapism inherent in the idea of adventuring in worlds that don't exist using capabilities that real people don't have?

And why would Spider-Man not be a valid form of entertainment, or one that people don't think about? I'm active on forums where people put a lot of brainpower to work critiquing comic book stories, Spider-Man ones among them.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

So, what are you doing playing fantasy role-playing games where magic and nonhuman sapient races exist that don't in the real world? There's no escapism inherent in the idea of adventuring in worlds that don't exist using capabilities that real people don't have?

And why would Spider-Man not be a valid form of entertainment, or one that people don't think about? I'm active on forums where people put a lot of brainpower to work critiquing comic book stories, Spider-Man ones among them.

I don't think I'm permitted to have an opinion, on pain of banning.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Everyone is scum in real life, but that doesn't prevent all sorts of moral memeplexes from coming into existence.

If the PCs are really not capable of at least enough depth to match real life, maybe they are not bright enough to play with.

The statement that everybody is scum in real life seems contradicted by even cursory observation, the idea that amorality equals depth seems more than a little suspect, and always remember that you're not playing with the player characters, you're playing with their players.

[LemmingLord]

so to sum up.. some people like an enemy who is clearly an enemy.

in many popular genres, orcs are such a clear cut enemy with no redeeming qualities or "human" rights.

in gurps, orc stats usually define them with many more redeeming qualities... more complicated characters...

if you have players telling you they want to play in a game with clear good guys and bad guys... make sure than any orcs that appear are one or the other unless there is some very clear exceptions... (i.e. all orcs are evil.. except the one the players are told beforehand is a spy for the good guys who may or may not have a special backstory to support it...)

if you have players telling you they want to play a game where the sentient races are all redeemable and worthy of "human" rights..... then make sure to make it clear in your world history you hand out or tell the characters outright clealry states that although the players are on team blue - which is a human / dwarf / elf club; and the orcs are in many little bands...some that are allied with team blue... some orcs team up with team red (which is mostly dark elves and those the dark elves have enslaved, which include humans, and some half-elves, goblins and kobolds).... defining it in this way means a character should be built before hand with their thoughts about orcs... they may have intolerance: orcs... or delusion: orcs are all evil - and figure any orc is better off dead.. If it is a military campaign, such a character will get to face many in story opportunities to show off his beliefs.... and probably get a chance to see that orcs aren't all so bad... as long as they are on your side...

This puts orcs more in line with the tribes of north america during the occupation of their land by the evil Europeans... where they are considered savages...but are used and often abused to further one nation's expansion or the greed of individuals usually at the expense of another tribe... In this genre, one character maybe intolerant while another character maybe an orc working for the "good guys."

Of course even a black and white campaign can say "northern orcs are good... southern orcs are evil..." so once you know how to tell the difference, you can kill the southern orcs at will and still have an occasional "mixed mission" where you are siding with northern orcs to fight the southern orcs...

Lots of possibilites.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I don't think I'm permitted to have an opinion, on pain of banning.

The moderator's comment you reproduced seemed directed at accusations of mental deficiency and retardation in particular, not more general questions such as the role of escapism in fantasy role playing, but if you feel you've been warned off the whole topic, sorry for bringing it up.