Looking for fantasy/medieval weapon & equipment lists

[Novembermike]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

I can't see how this is any better than any of the other price lists on the net. Better off using an actual inventory list and coverting from real historical prices.

That's usually overkill. As long as the numbers are reasonable it's not going to matter whether or not the prices are perfectly accurate. Any consistent list should work for a game.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by hal

Here is a price list of goods listed for the HARNWORLD game product

Some of those prices look pretty queer. Grease is four times the price of butter, for instance, and butter costs less than the cream you would need to make it of. Bacon and ham are no dearer than pork. Cedar is less than half the price of oak. "House,mid-class,poor" costs as much as "manor-house,stone,small".

Moreover, the information in the "salesman" column is a joke, suggesting for instance that one buys bread and pies from a miller rather than a baker, and using a lot of made-up words such as "weaponcrafter" and "mercantyler".

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Novembermike

That's usually overkill. As long as the numbers are reasonable it's not going to matter whether or not the prices are perfectly accurate. Any consistent list should work for a game.

As Brett has said, just like every other free list online, the prices have no consistency.

[hal]

Originally Posted by Brett

Some of those prices look pretty queer. Grease is four times the price of butter, for instance, and butter costs less than the cream you would need to make it of. Bacon and ham are no dearer than pork. Cedar is less than half the price of oak. "House,mid-class,poor" costs as much as "manor-house,stone,small".

Moreover, the information in the "salesman" column is a joke, suggesting for instance that one buys bread and pies from a miller rather than a baker, and using a lot of made-up words such as "weaponcrafter" and "mercantyler".

On the presumption that the ratio of butter to Cream is about 1:2, and that a gallon of cream is about 8 lbs, then you should be able to get about 4 lbs of butter per gallon of cream. Net result, butter should probably cost about 1 silver penny per pound instead of 1/2 silver penny per pound. As for the made up names? <shrug> How made up are we talking about here? One COULD have given the names of every single type of weapon crafter from boyer/fletcher down to polisher, down to what ever names they were called - or you could have a single name for weapon crafter. As for baked bread and the like - Harn makes the presumption that this is the domain of the miller on the farm rather than the domain of the baker in a village per se. In addition, Harnworld does not have a job description of "Baker" within its list of vocations. Is this an oversight? Possibly <g>. On the other hand, it may very well be that the author didn't bother to include every possibility - either for sake of brevity, or because he didn't have access to the information in the pre-internet days.

As for the value of wood - I have to agree, that the prices are a bit disconnected from reality. Is it the most accurate simulation of medieval prices you will ever find? I'd guess probably not <g>. On the other hand, GURPS isn't all that good at simulating accurate prices either...

[hal]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

As Brett has said, just like every other free list online, the prices have no consistency.

Just for the record - that compilation of "prices" is based on everything that has been produced for HARNWORLD up to the time that was produced. It would be interesting to note for example, that even if you look at historic prices (a document that is floating online as a result of vetting GIES & GIES books for listed values within the books), you will find that even historical prices are not self-consistent either. <shrug>

[safisher]

Originally Posted by hal

even historical prices are not self-consistent either. <shrug>

Exactly right. Real life modern day prices aren't consistent either. Where are you shopping? NYC or Mississippi? Ebay, boutique stores, or yard sale? Is it for school supplies during back-to-school season, or writing supplies at a journal store? Winter clothes at the end of winter season, or for a bikini in December?

That said, Low-Tech is not just a list. It's a description of how and why and which, concerning technology, skills, techniques, and so forth. It is a catalog, but also more.

I have made lists of gear for my own campaigns, and those lists are on the net, or derived from those on the net. I like price lists.

Still, LT is superior as a starting point for creating such a list. You get not just item/cost/wieght, but performance numbers of all types (damage, DR/HP, etc.) and how and why and when to use the thing.

Lists are useful, and very handy in play or to print out and give to players when they are creating characters or shopping at the bazaar in game. Low-Tech isn't really for that purpose, exclusively.

[Jeminai]

I'd like to know just how "creative" his players can be that they can come up with an idea that can't be some how created using Low Tech and its companions.

If the original poster could give us a few examples of the types of things his players come up with; perhaps page numbers could be given to help him or hints on how to use the rules to create items could be given to him.

This is a nice way of saying "just buy the book", but I am curious if he could provide truly "out-there" ideas.

[Danukian]

Originally Posted by hal

Just for the record - that compilation of "prices" is based on everything that has been produced for HARNWORLD up to the time that was produced. It would be interesting to note for example, that even if you look at historic prices (a document that is floating online as a result of vetting GIES & GIES books for listed values within the books), you will find that even historical prices are not self-consistent either. <shrug>

Right, no list can be consistent, between time and region - and most importantly: game world! Who is to say in your game world platinum isn't more common than iron? In medieval Europe, leather was fairly cheap, but steel expensive; In modern Detroit, an equal amount of leather is MANY times the price of steel.

But as stated, Low Tech isn't just a list of prices, it is a book of tech and how it fits into a world.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Danukian

Who is to say in your game world platinum isn't more common than iron? .

Chemists and nuclear physicists. Which only means that in worlds where this is true there chemistry and nuclear physics are unrecognizable to us.

You can establish such variants but prepared to find that they vary more than you might expect.

[Novembermike]

Originally Posted by Brett

Some of those prices look pretty queer. Grease is four times the price of butter, for instance, and butter costs less than the cream you would need to make it of. Bacon and ham are no dearer than pork. Cedar is less than half the price of oak. "House,mid-class,poor" costs as much as "manor-house,stone,small".

This stuff is going to need a lot of assumptions I wouldn't feel comfortable making. In the butter vs cream example, if cream spoils more quickly than butter (I think it does because I think butter was traded while cream was local) then cream will have to be bought fresh from farms while the butter can be stored. Bacon and ham vs pork is probably a setting thing or the result of different books. The housing issue might still be fine depending on what those modifiers mean (what is a small manor, for example).

Moreover, the information in the "salesman" column is a joke, suggesting for instance that one buys bread and pies from a miller rather than a baker, and using a lot of made-up words such as "weaponcrafter" and "mercantyler".

This stuff is pretty bad, but it's not really all that important for something like this.