Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-13-2016, 01:06 AM   #131
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

Not a detailed review but positive press nonetheless.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 01:09 AM   #132
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Not a detailed review but positive press nonetheless.
Awesome. That's a blog I'd've not expected to show up on.
__________________
My w23 Stuff
My Blog
GURPS Discord
My Discord

Latest GURPS Book: Meta-Tech
Latest TFT: Vile Vines

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 10:25 AM   #133
benz72
 
benz72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chagrin Falls
Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
At a high level (and with many of the details) Sir Pudding has it right.

The customers will only pay a certain amount per page, regardless of the information conveyed. There's room for nudge on this, but not much.

Silly example: you find a way to get all of the information in both volumes of GURPS Basic Set - all of it, all 500 pages or whatever - in a single 11x17" printed page. This requires a lot of editorial and graphical and textual support, though. That kind of conciseness is hard. But you do it, and you pay for it, behind the scenes. Iteration with graphical artists, with the editors, with the layout folks, and marketing. All of it.

You feel that while the books are currently $80 or so, technically the single page document is worth MORE. It certainly cost more to make. But fine, you say, I'll only charge $50 for it.

Great. Your customers will pay $0.20, because it's "only one sheet of paper."

I've gotten a lot of flak over my noting on Google+ that Dragon Heresy, the SRD5.1 game I'm doing, is going to need two volumes to do "right," because right now I'm pushing a total word count of 450,000. Probably 720 laid-out pages.

"You suck," says the internets.

But the internets have also spoken: they want character creation ideas (lots of them), well-balanced powers, a full bestiary, combat rules and options, low-detail options, high detail options, a fully-worked setting, setting-free options, PDFs, print copies, experience point progressions, advancement by plot point, advancement by treasure, and full adventure support.

And they want all of that for something like ten to twenty cents per page, and will grouse if it's more.

Editing, indexing, and writing are usually paid for by the word (my benchmarks are about 2.5-8 cents per word for editing and writing, and about $10 per 1,000 words for indexing). Layout is still a tetch opaque to me, but seems to run something like $2.50-$5 per page. Art is something like $200-250 per 8.5x11" in full color . . . or more if you're hiring well-known, popular, sought-after artists.

Balanced against the prices customers are willing to pay, and the opportunity costs that if they're spending a lot of staff time (assuming you have staff) doing Project M and not Project D, then Project M can pretty quickly get in a hole out of which it cannot dig itself.
I am sure your (plural, didn't multiquote the thread) rationales and explanations are correct. I do not doubt the experts. I suppose I am simply surprised that there is such a large amount of non-automatable work in the editing and layout. Had anyone asked me to estimate what it took to layout something like this I would have supposed an afternoon with a template and some cut & paste shuffling would be plenty. Clearly I do not understand the effort involved. This is certainly not a comment on 'what ought to be' but rather a revelation of my ignorance about what really happens to make these products (or at least, make them so well). Thank you to all involved for doing those things and making the products I enjoy so much.
__________________
Benundefined
Life has a funny way of making sure you decide to leave the party just a few minutes too late to avoid trouble.
benz72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 11:01 AM   #134
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

The idea of lobbing 6d attacks like clockwork doesn't bother me, as brawny weapon masters can easily get into that weight class
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 12:58 PM   #135
Kuroshima
MIB
Pyramid Contributor
Mad Spaniard Rules Lawyer
 
Kuroshima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The ASS of the world, mainly Valencia, Spain (Europe)
Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
The idea of lobbing 6d attacks like clockwork doesn't bother me, as brawny weapon masters can easily get into that weight class
Indeed, 6d is 3d+10, and a starting knight with weapon master can do that, possibly multiple times per turn (rapid strike, if you consider that ST 15+Striking ST2+Weapon Master doesn't leave enough points for extra attack). Eventually, such knight will deal more damage than that up to 4 times per turn (rapid strike/dual weapon attack + 2 extra attacks)...
__________________
Antoni Ten
MIB3119
My GURPs character sheet
My stuff on e23
Kuroshima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 01:04 PM   #136
GodBeastX
 
GodBeastX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Behind You
Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

---- Please Remove, wrong thread ----
__________________
RPG Jutsu.com - Ninjas Play GURPS
GodBeastX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 01:09 PM   #137
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

Well a ST 17 WM is swinging for 3d+5 pre weapon . . . so he needs a sweet weapon which he likely won't afford with starting wealth

Fine balanced tempered glass dwarven axe is sweet and nets what, 3d+13? 5pts in Sig gear gets you one if I did math right
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 02:37 PM   #138
Wavefunction
 
Wavefunction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Well a ST 17 WM is swinging for 3d+5 pre weapon . . . so he needs a sweet weapon which he likely won't afford with starting wealth
A halberd will get you up to 3d+10.

An Ogre Knight with ST 25 and Weapon Master can clock about 5d+9 base swing damage, +5 for a halberd and you're looking at 9d (5d+14), and that's right at the start of the game. With a Very Rapid Strike you can do that 3 times.
Wavefunction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 02:45 PM   #139
Kuroshima
MIB
Pyramid Contributor
Mad Spaniard Rules Lawyer
 
Kuroshima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The ASS of the world, mainly Valencia, Spain (Europe)
Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavefunction View Post
A halberd will get you up to 3d+10.

An Ogre Knight with ST 25 and Weapon Master can clock about 5d+9 base swing damage, +5 for a halberd and you're looking at 9d (5d+14), and that's right at the start of the game. With a Very Rapid Strike you can do that 3 times.
Or the human knight could use a Fantasy Tech Zweihander for 3d+11, with fencing parries and reach 3 for little more than his starting cash...

Once you get into ogres and half ogres, damage goes up by a lot ;)
__________________
Antoni Ten
MIB3119
My GURPs character sheet
My stuff on e23
Kuroshima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 02:46 PM   #140
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

If we go Ogre Barbarian (Savage Warrior) we can eventually have WM combined with SM+2 weapons and there will be much rejoicing

I haven't internalized Incantation Magic at all yet, but one of my groups favorite things with RPM is granting 'per die' damage bonuses, but if that is allowed in Incantation Magic we can make our parties ogre mucho happy happy
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dungeon fantasy, fantasy

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.