How to model SUPER strong and fast characters?

[LisMorozniy]

So, I started a campaign in setting of Hunter X Hunter and currently I have some problems modelling high ST and DX characters. In particular 50-500 range. Especially high DX stats creates problem with retreat, rapid strike, rule of 20 and some other rules.

[Aldric]

What are the problems exactly ?

[sir_pudding]

You probably don't want to allow DX 50. Even truly over-the-top games should cap DX, HT, and IQ around 20.

[Plane]

If everyone has DX50 not really sure what problems it creates, you just end up having people take -40 deceptive attacks to give -20 to your skill 30 parries.

[Cheeseball]

Originally Posted by Plane

If everyone has DX50 not really sure what problems it creates, you just end up having people take -40 deceptive attacks to give -20 to your skill 30 parries.

I think the same. If you want to give a superhero DX 500, give it to them. You will still be able to take -484 Deceptive Attack to penalize your enemy's defenses by -242, and then roll vs 16.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

You probably don't want to allow DX 50. Even truly over-the-top games should cap DX, HT, and IQ around 20.

Cap them at 20? No. But 20 is super high, and things start getting over-the top there. 50 is wildly excessive. 500 is.... weird. I could see a game played in the 20-40's range. 500 is wildy out of Gurp's normal scope.

Originally Posted by Plane

If everyone has DX50 not really sure what problems it creates, you just end up having people take -40 deceptive attacks to give -20 to your skill 30 parries.

Yeah, so rising DX and weapon skill works fairly well, you just have to do more math with deceptive parries.


I know of at least forumite who runs games that routinely hit 40's in skill levels... I consider him to be playing a different sort of game than the rest of us. A fun game from the sound of it, and I know it can be done... but 40's is a different matter than 500's.


Why do these characters have 500's?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Aldric

What are the problems exactly ?

I'm curious about this as well. Retreats? Sure, +1 or +3 doesn't seem like much with Parry 30... but when a similarly-skilled foe takes a -40 to skill to drop that to Parry 10, suddenly that +1 or +3 is a big deal. Rapid Strike? Yeah, you can (assuming TbaM/WM, but why wouldn't you buy one of those if you have enough of a budget for +40 DX?) readily attack 13 times in a single second (at -36 to skill), but that's entirely appropriate for over-the-top anime characters (not familiar with Hunter x Hunter, but I know in Rurouni Kenshin the penultimate technique of the titular character's fighting style involves striking the foe 9 times in an instant). Rule of 20? Just give the character an appropriate Dabbler Perk or two and they'll be good to go... or just ignore that for your over-the-top game.

[Cheeseball]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I'm curious about this as well. Retreats? Sure, +1 or +3 doesn't seem like much with Parry 30... but when a similarly-skilled foe takes a -40 to skill to drop that to Parry 10, suddenly that +1 or +3 is a big deal. Rapid Strike? Yeah, you can (assuming TbaM/WM, but why wouldn't you buy one of those if you have enough of a budget for +40 DX?) readily attack 13 times in a single second (at -36 to skill), but that's entirely appropriate for over-the-top anime characters (not familiar with Hunter x Hunter, but I know in Rurouni Kenshin the penultimate technique of the titular character's fighting style involves striking the foe 9 times in an instant). Rule of 20? Just give the character an appropriate Dabbler Perk or two and they'll be good to go... or just ignore that for your over-the-top game.

I would ignore that rule. Always based on the fact that such high scores are typical of anime movies, or superheroes.

Perhaps what he is referring to is that there is not much difference between a superhero with a score of 50 and another with a score of 500, when pitted against an average character? I do not know.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Rule of 20? Just give the character an appropriate Dabbler Perk or two and they'll be good to go... or just ignore that for your over-the-top game.

IDHMBWM, but IIRC there's a +25% Enhancement in 4e Supers that lets you totally ignore Rule of 20 on some or all of your over-20 DX if you want.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

IDHMBWM, but IIRC there's a +25% Enhancement in 4e Supers that lets you totally ignore Rule of 20 on some or all of your over-20 DX if you want.

I suspect by the time you reach DX 50, you'd be better off just putting [1] in each skill - DX +30 (No Rule of 20 +25%) [750] is the same cost as DX +30 [600] and [1] in each of 150 DX-based skills. And Dabbler, which lets you functionally put fractional points in a skill (down to [1/8], for -3 relative to putting [1] in), is an even stronger contender. Honestly, I'm not sure Rule of 20 is really ever necessary - going above 20 for anything but ST is explicitly superhuman anyway, and the defaults for 20 are already problematic (you can use Very Hard skills at a professional level without any investment).