[Powers] Putting multiple abilities into an Alternative Ability slot

[johndallman]

A character in my Infinite Cabal campaign who uses psionics, rather than magic, has been feeling rather outdone by the magicians recently. However, if the party succeed in their current attempt to climb Mount Olympus in the world of Orichalcum (Infinite Worlds, pp. 139-40), he is likely to get a chance to re-arrange his abilities and bend the usual limits a bit. He's using abilities from Psionic Powers at present.

He has [80] in Jumper, which is a good baseline for a large Alternative Ability, although it isn't part of one at present. He also has TK Bullet and TK Grab as Alternative Abilities of each other. and Telesend and Telerecieve, which are both standalone.

I've had the idea of making both TK Bullet and TK Grab into a single AA slot. Both would be usable at the same time. In the same way, Telesend and Telerecieve could be a single slot, both being usable at the same time.

Is this permissible? I can't find anything about this in my rules collection, and it's an unusual situation, caused by the campaign history.

[Dragondog]

If TK Bullet and TK Grab aren't related to the others, you'd have to pay full cost for both of them. If you on the other hand place all of them into one power and pay for the two most expensive powers in the set, you can use two powers at the same time. This could be TK Bullet and TK Grab or any of the two powers in the set.

[Refplace]

Nothing wrong with I know of. I do it myself and allow it in my games.
Not much use to doing it with multiple attack powers since without another advantage (Extra Attack, CM or ATR) you get only one attack and switching between attacks is a Free Action.

[RogerBW]

I find it aesthetically unappealing, but I don't think it's expressly forbidden. I do like Dragondog's answer of paying for the most expensive two, and then being able to use any two.

[Aldric]

That's the sorcery solution.

[ericthered]

I don't know of any place where it says it specifically, but generally its something I both allow in my games and encourage. It gets especially fun with leveled abilities, and I think it really helps the powers system compete with some of the other magic systems out there.

[WhiteFox1618]

There's the option of taking multiple alternate ability slots... pay full cost for the two most expensive abilities, and the PC can access any two abilities in the set (I have a cyberpsi mecha pilot in an "anime-like" campaign, with; digital mind reading, digital mind probe, and vehicular possession from pyramid3_30), as alternate abilities. I plan on taking a second alternate ability slot once I accumulate the points to do so.

An alternative to alternate abilities, taken from biotech (ostensibly for switchable body parts), is using Temporary Disadvantage, doesn't have "other advantage," (plus switchable, for any "always on" abilities).
So, you might have:
Jumper (Temporary disadvantage, Can't use TK bullet, Can't use TK Grab)
TK Bullet (Temporary disadvantage, Can't use Jumper)
TK Grab (Temporary disadvantage, Can't use Jumper)
The temporary disadvantage values being based on the point value of the advantage disabled.. eg, with [15] in TK bullet, "can't use TK bullet" would be worth -12%
This setup allows the psi to use TK bullet and TK Grab at the same time, but not jumper, and jumper doesn't allow either Grab or Bullet. It's a bit kludgy in the numbers, but in play it's intuitive enough.
Bearing in mind all the terms+conditions for temporary disadvantages.
Passive "always-on" abilities, such as PK shield, would need switchable, otherwise the temporary disadvantage would always be in effect.

This kind of setup doesn't always give as much of a point break as Alternative Abilities, (since Temp Dis is included in the -80% cap for limitations, while AA's are compounded with limitations), but it does give a discount to the most expensive ability, unlike AA's. It also allows more fine tuning (which can get really fiddly, but sometimes a player wants to fiddle, in moderation).
For example, TK Grab and Bullet might disable only a few levels of the other, so the PC could use both Grab and Bullet at the same time, but only at half strength, or use one of the two at full strength.

Christopher: That's really good to know... I have a dragon esper PC with AA's who may have to make use of that, (not that he really needs to, at 1100+ CP, but still. Every little bite helps. (If I can sell the GM on it, at least).

Edit: Varyon sniped me on the multi-AA's, dangit. I take too long to edit my posts. X3

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by johndallman

A character in my Infinite Cabal campaign who uses psionics, rather than magic, has been feeling rather outdone by the magicians recently. However, if the party succeed in their current attempt to climb Mount Olympus in the world of Orichalcum (Infinite Worlds, pp. 139-40), he is likely to get a chance to re-arrange his abilities and bend the usual limits a bit. He's using abilities from Psionic Powers at present.

He has [80] in Jumper, which is a good baseline for a large Alternative Ability, although it isn't part of one at present. He also has TK Bullet and TK Grab as Alternative Abilities of each other. and Telesend and Telerecieve, which are both standalone.

I've had the idea of making both TK Bullet and TK Grab into a single AA slot. Both would be usable at the same time. In the same way, Telesend and Telerecieve could be a single slot, both being usable at the same time.

Is this permissible? I can't find anything about this in my rules collection, and it's an unusual situation, caused by the campaign history.

Absolutely. There is nothing in the rules saying you cannot have multiple AAs. In my AEON campaign I require them. Each power has a offensive, defensive, and utility/movement power chain. So supers can use an attack power, a defending power, and a utility power all at once.

[RogerBW]

I think possibly there's some confusion in what's being proposed.

It's not:

AA#1 (power A) or (power B) or (power C)
plus
AA#2 (power D) or (power E) or (power F)

as Christopher described. Rather, it's

AA (power A) or (power B) or (power C + power D)

where C and D are distinct abilities, collectively of lower cost than A, which may but need not be used at the same time. Using either or both of them would lock out A and B until the use of C and/or D stops.

On reflection I see why I found it aesthetically unappealing - modulo rounding errors, it costs the same as having each power in a separate slot, but it's better.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by RogerBW

I think possibly there's some confusion in what's being proposed.

It's not:

AA#1 (power A) or (power B) or (power C)
plus
AA#2 (power D) or (power E) or (power F)

as Christopher described. Rather, it's

AA (power A) or (power B) or (power C + power D)

where C and D are distinct abilities, collectively of lower cost than A, which may but need not be used at the same time. Using either or both of them would lock out A and B until the use of C and/or D stops.

On reflection I see why I found it aesthetically unappealing - modulo rounding errors, it costs the same as having each power in a separate slot, but it's better.

Ahhh. I see. Yeah, so I do that too. Some abilities require multiple advantages. I call that a feature and move on. It's worked fine for AEON so far. Do note (which is probably obvious) you can't have nested AAs.