11-19-2016, 04:32 PM | #21 | |
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Land of Enchantment
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Re: What Is This Bullet For?
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That idea comes from a paper Fackler published, and has been widely misinterpreted. (It is discussed at length at the link in my sig.) And then the various gun media, blogs, and general know-nothings have argued it back and forth and you'll find it everywhere, right beside "never use a pistol whose caliber doesn't start with a 4" and other nonsense. Fackler's paper was not trying to, and never stated that, bullet tumble and temporary cavities were immaterial. At the time there was a belief that the lethality of a bullet could be increased almost infinitely by increasing velocity. Or alternately, lethality could be retained at lower weight by pushing smaller projectiles to higher velocities. (This is how we ended up with ridiculous designs like the Steyr ACR flechette gun and other such absurdities.) And this is what Fackler was saying had gotten over-emphasized... and he was correct. His paper merely said that the effects of fragmentation were being overlooked. But he wasn't saying that tumble and temporary cavities weren't a factor! This is why 7.62mm is pretty lethal- it turns sideways and creates a simply gigantic temporary cavity- but it usually exits the target before fragmenting unless it hits bone. This contrasts with the 5.56mm which (with proper loads- another long discussion) would otherwise create much smaller temporary cavities, but which fragments wildly. Both mechanisms work. And they are linked- fragmenting projectiles deliver more energy to the target and tend to develop larger temporary cavities. Small caliber rounds that are high velocity but stable or otherwise don't fragment do indeed suffer from "ice-picking."
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I'd need to get a grant and go shoot a thousand goats to figure it out. Last edited by acrosome; 11-19-2016 at 04:40 PM. |
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11-20-2016, 02:22 AM | #22 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: What Is This Bullet For?
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Last edited by Tomsdad; 11-20-2016 at 02:31 AM. |
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11-20-2016, 03:43 AM | #23 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: What Is This Bullet For?
Far as I can tell, the original standard was "<5mm pi-, 5-10mm pi, 10-15mm pi+, 15-20mm pi++, 20mm+ pi++ (and not reduced by AP)"; there are no weapons in Basic that don't fit that rule (the only pi- weapons are .17 caliber shot, 4.6mm PDW, 4mm gauss, and the dart rifle).
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11-20-2016, 07:08 AM | #24 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: What Is This Bullet For?
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4mm to 7.99mm (.16 to .31 caliber): At low velocities (pistol cartridges or black-powder weapons), damage type is small piercing (pi-); this models the behavior of rounds like the .32 ACP (which fires a 7.95mm bullet), .25 ACP, and .22 LR. For bullets of this caliber fired from high-velocity weapons (such as most centerfire rifles), damage type is piercing (pi). High Tech pg 163 Which was further elaborated on in Tactical shooting with regards the velocity point (TSpg61 "My Carbine Sucks/Rocks") |
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11-20-2016, 11:21 AM | #25 | |
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Land of Enchantment
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Re: What Is This Bullet For?
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But it is important to note that 5.56mm is somewhat of an anomaly. It was more or less a fluke that the M193 worked as well as it did, and then the M855A1 was designed to do what it does. (Even though officially the only goal was better penetration, by happy "coincidence" the way that the designers went about it resulted in a very tail-heavy and tumbly round.) Other rounds of similar caliber (.22-ish) should not be assumed to work as well.
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I'd need to get a grant and go shoot a thousand goats to figure it out. Last edited by acrosome; 11-20-2016 at 11:32 AM. |
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11-20-2016, 02:07 PM | #26 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: What Is This Bullet For?
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Cheers for the link (and yeah bigger isn't always better) Quote:
Anyway cheers TD |
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11-20-2016, 03:29 PM | #27 | |
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: What Is This Bullet For?
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11-20-2016, 04:00 PM | #28 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: What Is This Bullet For?
Well, not only that but the TL8 round may be demonstrating virtues that neither HT nor UT really addresses as possible...
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
11-21-2016, 05:26 AM | #29 | |
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Re: What Is This Bullet For?
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bullets, help me out here |
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