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Old 04-09-2011, 12:49 PM   #21
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Abilities that Cost ST, HT, IQ, DX, Will, etc.

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
Figuring the value of Costs Attribute that way looks right, but if you're modeling it on Leech
I'm not modeling based on leech. In fact, I'm totally ignoring leech.
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Old 04-09-2011, 01:20 PM   #22
Figleaf23
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Default Re: Abilities that Cost ST, HT, IQ, DX, Will, etc.

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Logical extrapolation is that, if it recovers at the same rate as fatigue, every 3 character points of ability loss should be the same as a fatigue cost of 1, so costing 3 ST is equivalent to costing 10 fatigue, for -50% (8 fatigue if it doesn't reduce HP). Note that the general ability to spend attribute points as fatigue can be attained by taking an energy reserve as an alternate ability on the attribute you can burn (and the GM should rule that for an energy reserve as an AA, the base power does not recover until the energy reserve recovers), but that would allow you to spend normal fatigue or anything else (actually, this is a fairly cool concept for mages).
There's a possible problem with this, I think. Are spent character points really fully fungible?

Example:

A character has HT12, FP12, ST12 and HP12.

If she spends 9 FP she incurs specific penalties. This is would correspond to 27 CP.

If you translate the 27 CP to an ST! penalty you get 27/8 for a four point penalty to ST = ST8.

I'm not sure that the consequences of being at ST8 down from ST12 are as significant as the consequences of being at FP3 down from FP12.
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Old 04-09-2011, 01:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: Abilities that Cost ST, HT, IQ, DX, Will, etc.

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Originally Posted by Figleaf23 View Post
I'm not sure that the consequences of being at ST8 down from ST12 are as significant as the consequences of being at FP3 down from FP12.
Reduced damage, reduced Basic Lift (you might start losing FP depending on your new encumbrance level based on what you're carrying), etc.

IMHO, I think they're as significant, if not moreso. So in fact I think in this case they're "fungible" (nice word) and we can make the extrapolation, if and only if we assume they recover at the same rate as FP recovery, as they do in Leech, otherwise we need to factor in the different recovery rate into the final value.
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Old 04-09-2011, 01:33 PM   #24
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Abilities that Cost ST, HT, IQ, DX, Will, etc.

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Originally Posted by Figleaf23 View Post
There's a possible problem with this, I think. Are spent character points really fully fungible?
If you could pick, at the time you used a power, which character points it came off of, that would certainly have a different value.
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Originally Posted by Figleaf23 View Post
I'm not sure that the consequences of being at ST8 down from ST12 are as significant as the consequences of being at FP3 down from FP12.
FP3: your move and dodge are halved (-2 and -4 for a typical character). Your ST is halved, but ST-based numbers, including BL and Swing, are unaffected.
ST8: your BL drops from 29 to 13, increasing Light encumbrance to Medium or Heavy (-1 or -2 to both Move and Dodge, and to any abilities adjusted by BL). Your Swing damage is reduced by 4, your Thrust damage is reduced by 2.

Looks pretty comparable, TBH.
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Old 04-09-2011, 03:10 PM   #25
jeff_wilson
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Default Re: Abilities that Cost ST, HT, IQ, DX, Will, etc.

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Originally Posted by Figleaf23 View Post
There's a possible problem with this, I think. Are spent character points really fully fungible?

Example:

A character has HT12, FP12, ST12 and HP12.

If she spends 9 FP she incurs specific penalties. This is would correspond to 27 CP.

If you translate the 27 CP to an ST! penalty you get 27/8 for a four point penalty to ST = ST8.

I'm not sure that the consequences of being at ST8 down from ST12 are as significant as the consequences of being at FP3 down from FP12.
If they had spent those 27 points on Extra FP instead of ST!, the effects of being at FP12 down from FP 21 would be less still, but the CP costs of the abilities that cost FP per use would be the same, making the fungibility of spent CP irrelevant to the value of costs-FP-per-use abilities, and by analogy irrelevant to costs-attribute-per-use abilities.
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Old 04-09-2011, 09:00 PM   #26
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: Abilities that Cost ST, HT, IQ, DX, Will, etc.

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Originally Posted by Anthony
I'm not modeling based on leech. In fact, I'm totally ignoring leech.
Well... the generic "you", then :)

Leech seems to be the closest thing to it. Treating all atts the same as FP for recovery purposes means that you are only considering the purchase value for the purpose of expenditure, rather than both that and recovery rate, avoiding an extra layer of complexity. Since drains on atts (either by Leech or Affliction) heal at fixed rates regardless of which particular trait is attacked, it seems reasonable that expenditures should as well. Not that I think there's anything wrong with basing recovery on the value. I suppose a side-effect of doing so will be to make such fuel even less attractive to player characters.
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