[DF] [LT] Designing coins.

[Tyneras]

I've decided to try my hand at designing the actual coins that all those GURPS$ represent. These are for my DF game, and represent the widespread coins of the Elven Kingdoms, who have been around a very long time with consistent currency the entire time and are thus the standard against which all others are measured.

For the gold and silver coins, I am using the prices of $20,000 per lb and $1,000 per lb from Low Tech page 39.

The gold coin is about the size of a US dime, 91% gold with a value of $250.
The silver coin is slightly thinner than a US nickle, 91% silver with a value of $10.

My only quibble with these numbers is that the figure I generally see thrown around the forums is that 1 gold coin = $20, which would be TINY unless is it very low purity. A quick scan of websites on gold coin allows says that most coins used as currency were around 90% gold, above that and they were too soft for regular use.

I have a slight problem with the copper coins. Copper is pretty cheap, $4.30 per lb if you are right next to a mine, or up to $18 per lb if you are far away. If I go with a high end price, a US quarter sized coin is worth $0.25. I kind of like that, as it makes 40 copper coins per silver which kinda feels right. But I'm also not sure if having the smallest currency unit be $0.25 would make sense for a society to use, although half and quarter copper coins might make sense and fit the feel.

Thoughts? Suggestions? With the release of Social Engineering, my players have agreed to try a quick fantasy merchants game in the same DF universe they normally hack and slash their way through.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

For the gold and silver coins, I am using the prices of $20,000 per lb and $1,000 per lb from Low Tech page 39.

The gold coin is about the size of a US dime, 91% gold with a value of $250.
The silver coin is slightly thinner than a US nickle, 91% silver with a value of $10.

My only quibble with these numbers is that the figure I generally see thrown around the forums is that 1 gold coin = $20, which would be TINY unless is it very low purity. A quick scan of websites on gold coin allows says that most coins used as currency were around 90% gold, above that and they were too soft for regular use.

I believe that figure is for the much lower prices of gold and silver that you use if you want to do D&D style fantasy with vast piles of currency.

If a gold coin is $20, then a silver coin of the same weight is $1, with that ratio. Usually both coins are taken as weighing one troy ounce. An ounce of gold is fairly substantial.

For realistic currency, a silver penny weighs 1/20 troy ounce (a "pennyweight") and is worth, typically, $4. An ounce of silver is then about $50, and an ounce of gold is around $1,000.

Mixing the two—the hyperbolic D&D value and the economically somewhat realistic value—will only cause confusion.

Bill Stoddard

[Tyneras]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Mixing the two—the hyperbolic D&D value and the economically somewhat realistic value—will only cause confusion.

Bill Stoddard

Thanks for the numbers. The DF treasure table has a 1 lb gold crown at $21,000, so I assumed that GURPS was using realistic values by default and I was just missing out on something obvious. I'll be going with more realistic values.

[Dammann]

Well, (if I am understanding correctly what a crown is) that is a piece of jewelry made for the freakin' king- there might be some value in the artist's craft included in that. Also, as a badge of authority, it will not be a common piece of jewelry, so it is also a rarity.

A crown is the king's hat, here, not a giant frisbee of a coin, right?

[Tyneras]

Originally Posted by Dammann

Well, (if I am understanding correctly what a crown is) that is a piece of jewelry made for the freakin' king- there might be some value in the artist's craft included in that. Also, as a badge of authority, it will not be a common piece of jewelry, so it is also a rarity.

A crown is the king's hat, here, not a giant frisbee of a coin, right?

Yeah, I figured $20,000 for 1 lb of pure gold (likely slightly less, an alloy) and $1,000 for 'art'. This is supposed to be stuff dug out of a dungeon, I bet half those trinkets get melted down and recast the same week the adventurers unload them on the shopkeepers.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Yeah, I figured $20,000 for 1 lb of pure gold (likely slightly less, an alloy) and $1,000 for 'art'. This is supposed to be stuff dug out of a dungeon, I bet half those trinkets get melted down and recast the same week the adventurers unload them on the shopkeepers.

A crown likely has some jewels in it as well.

[Tyneras]

Originally Posted by Refplace

A crown likely has some jewels in it as well.

Not in the Treasure Tables. You start with basics (Gold Crown, 1lb, $21,000) and then start adding things like jewels, magic powers, inscriptions, etc. that increase the value from there.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Not in the Treasure Tables. You start with basics (Gold Crown, 1lb, $21,000) and then start adding things like jewels, magic powers, inscriptions, etc. that increase the value from there.

Ah ok. Have not picked up that book yet, several of the DF line I am missing.

[Dammann]

Yeah, I haven't gotten that one yet, either- that's why I wasn't sure if it was a coin for buying castles and navies and such.

[Bruno]

DF lists 1sp = $4 and weighs as much as 1gp = 80$, which gives me brain cramps every time I think about how small that GP is, or alternately how adulterated it is. There have been "gold" coins up as high as 94-95% and down below 50% gold, but the ones diluted below 50% don't look very gold and are usually trigger raging inflation.

Which is useful for a D&D style economy and everything but bleh anyways.

IIRC The compromise Mlangsdorf came up with for his game is that an 80$ gp is a "piece of eight" and the full coin is much more solid.

My Greek DF game (should it ever get off the ground) has its currency page up on my wiki - My economy is deliberately inflated for the purpose of getting coins I like and being able to have them in the quantities I like without transmogrifying everything into montey hall.... while not being so debased as to be a total D&D economy :)