Britannica-6 and the Five Civilized Tribes

[Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2]

Originally Posted by Ramidel

While all of you are bashing Jackson, I'd like to make one note:

It was Van Buren who sent the Cherokee west (the biggest and the most brutal of the relocations). So let's not let Jackson take all the blame here.

Van Buren was the President during the Cherokee migration. But Jackson started the policy and remained the Evil Genius behind American politics until his death in 1845. No one could have become President during that time without his say-so, and he was such a domineering man that his pet policies remained in force for the remainder of his life. He gets the blame.

In OTL he almost started a civil war until cooler heads prevailed (read up on the Nullification Crisis). In Britannica-6, only the real possibility of war with Canada (and by extension the British Empire) allowed the secession to take place. And if he could have gotten away with deadly force - either in OTL or Britannica-6 - he would have.

The United States in Britannica-6 would be an outgrowth not of politics or sociology but of the personailty of one dominant figure - Andrew Jackson. The central government would have absolute powers in it's sphere of influence (mainly international affairs, military matters, national-scale finances, and anything dealing with "Manifest Destiny"), with everything else handled by competing power blocs and "Good-Old-Boy" networks. And anyone not a white male would be either chattel or invisible. Not a fun place to be anyone but a plutocrat.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2

Van Buren was the President during the Cherokee migration. But Jackson started the policy and remained the Evil Genius behind American politics until his death in 1845. No one could have become President during that time without his say-so, and he was such a domineering man that his pet policies remained in force for the remainder of his life. He gets the blame.

In OTL he almost started a civil war until cooler heads prevailed (read up on the Nullification Crisis). In Britannica-6, only the real possibility of war with Canada (and by extension the British Empire) allowed the secession to take place. And if he could have gotten away with deadly force - either in OTL or Britannica-6 - he would have.

The United States in Britannica-6 would be an outgrowth not of politics or sociology but of the personailty of one dominant figure - Andrew Jackson. The central government would have absolute powers in it's sphere of influence (mainly international affairs, military matters, national-scale finances, and anything dealing with "Manifest Destiny"), with everything else handled by competing power blocs and "Good-Old-Boy" networks. And anyone not a white male would be either chattel or invisible. Not a fun place to be anyone but a plutocrat.

Yar! Andy Jackson beat the Brits at New Orleans, and for that, I love him. His shameful treatment of the Indians and his general rascalliness are harder for me to overlook. :)

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2

I would assume some white settlers came along during the eviction (they did in OTL). But actually having them as an influential factor smells of "White Man's Burden". The Five Tribes had all the experise they needed - they just lacked the freedom to use it. I would fold tthe "Option #4" into #3. Emancipation would come naturally if they follow Britannica-6's British model.

Oh I agree, the Five Civilized Tribes had what they needed. The ''white man's burden'' had been discharged, pretty much. Newspapers, plantation agriculture, blacksmiths, gunsmiths, etc were all found among these Indians. But having additional allies and partners wouldn't hurt, would it?

[martinl]

Re: President Jackson

I always thought it was a pointed comment by the US government that Jackson is on the $20 bill - the most iconic piece of currency in the world.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by martinl

Re: President Jackson

I always thought it was a pointed comment by the US government that Jackson is on the $20 bill - the most iconic piece of currency in the world.

It would be if you could poll 100 average americans and get more than one that knew who the h*ll he was.

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

It would be if you could poll 100 average americans and get more than one that knew who the h*ll he was.

He's Michael and Janet's older brother, right? <ducks flying vase, flees out the door>

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

It would be if you could poll 100 average americans and get more than one that knew who the h*ll he was.

It's not a message for Americans.

[Ommadawn]

Originally Posted by martinl

It's not a message for Americans.

And we foreigners are even less likely to know the significance (if any).. so where's the message in that?

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Ommadawn

And we foreigners are even less likely to know the significance (if any).. so where's the message in that?

I may be biased by Canadianism. I knew who Jackson was and some of what he'd done at age 12. Part of general "history of North America" public school edumacation. The USA has had many impressive historical leaders, people who frankly seem to be "crit successes" on the presidental generation table.

Jackson was not one of them.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by martinl

I may be biased by Canadianism. I knew who Jackson was and some of what he'd done at age 12. Part of general "history of North America" public school edumacation. The USA has had many impressive historical leaders, people who frankly seem to be "crit successes" on the presidental generation table.

Jackson was not one of them.

I'm still waiting to hear what the message is. I imagine you're trying to say that by putting him on the 20, we're saying "Let this be a warning to all you indigenous/foreign people"?