Joss Whedon based Serenity on Travellers he used to play in college...

[Hans Rancke-Madsen]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

Whedon did, in an interview, admit that Firefly was based upon an RPG he played in college, IIRC, he used the words "a major science fiction RPG." That interview has been removed from the web for years now. He didn't say which one...

I'm not saying he couldn't have based Firefly on Traveller. I'm saying there is not enough evidence to warrant stating it as an incontrovertible fact. With this interview not extant, all that remains is fragile memories of it. Unless, of course, there are secondary sources mentioning it.


Hans

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

Whedon did, in an interview, admit that Firefly was based upon an RPG he played in college, IIRC, he used the words "a major science fiction RPG." That interview has been removed from the web for years now. He didn't say which one...

Did you read that interview yourself? Or are you referring to it at second or third or nth hand?

Bill Stoddard

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Whedon will not, ever, state this. The least reason is copyright - if he said that he would have to write a big check to Marc Miller et al.

This is an important consideration. James Cameron's numerous admissions that THE TERMINATOR was inspired by some episodes of THE OUTER LIMITS didn't help with and may have instigated the successful suit from Harlan Ellison, writer of those episodes and now credited writer of the film.

[Hans Rancke-Madsen]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

This is an important consideration. James Cameron's numerous admissions that THE TERMINATOR was inspired by some episodes of THE OUTER LIMITS didn't help with and may have instigated the successful suit from Harlan Ellison, writer of those episodes and now credited writer of the film.

The plots in adventures are probably copyrightable; I doubt story elements that Traveller got from multiple classic science fiction stories are.


Hans

[Zarathustra]

Can this debate ever be settled? If Whedon says, "No. Traveller had nothing to do with Firefly." then people will just say, "He had to say that to avoid getting sued or getting in trouble with some uptight studio exec."

If Whedon stays silent, then people will just keep saying that Firefly was based on Traveller. No evidence, lack of evidence, or counter evidence will ever sway these people.

The only way for people to find closure, would be for Joss to confirm their beliefs. Otherwise, this argument will never end.

At this point, I wonder how long this thread goes before it gets closed. Anyone want to take bets?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Can this debate ever be settled?

I don't know about settled, but if ak aramis has actually read the interview in question, and can tell us where and when, I'd consider that as having evidential value as to what Whedon said. If he heard about the interview from somebody else, not so much; it starts to fade into "there's a rumor going around."

Bill Stoddard

[Hans Rancke-Madsen]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Can this debate ever be settled? If Whedon says, "No. Traveller had nothing to do with Firefly." then people will just say, "He had to say that to avoid getting sued or getting in trouble with some uptight studio exec."

If Whedon stays silent, then people will just keep saying that Firefly was based on Traveller. No evidence, lack of evidence, or counter evidence will ever sway these people.

As long as people said "I believe Joss Whedon based Firefly on Traveller" instead of "Joss Whedon based Firefly on Traveller", I for one would be perfectly fine with it. It's a pretty plausible surmise, after all. But that's all it is: a surmise.


Hans

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen

As long as people said "I believe Joss Whedon based Firefly on Traveller" instead of "Joss Whedon based Firefly on Traveller", I for one would be perfectly fine with it. It's a pretty plausible surmise, after all. But that's all it is: a surmise.


Hans

That's not really how the majority of people think. Most people refuse to believe that their unwarranted assumptions are incontrovertible proof.

I've probably just offended a lot of people (all apologies for that), but I'm no different. Just like everyone else I tend to make unwarranted assumptions. The trick is to know the difference between a belief and something that's factually true.

Personally, I would love it if it were true and I'm not a Traveller fan.* However, I have to remember that what I want to be true and what is true aren't necessarily the same thing.

*Yet. I used to hate Traveller, because I could never think of any good way to run in it. I've since had a change of heart. :-)

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Did you read that interview yourself? Or are you referring to it at second or third or nth hand?

Bill Stoddard

Yes, I read it myself. It came down about the time Serenity hit DVD.

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen

I'm not saying he couldn't have based Firefly on Traveller. I'm saying there is not enough evidence to warrant stating it as an incontrovertible fact. With this interview not extant, all that remains is fragile memories of it. Unless, of course, there are secondary sources mentioning it.


Hans

I agree it's not incontrovertable fact. It is, however, reasonable hypothesis, and the evidence is strong enough that it would be hard to defend against.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

I agree it's not incontrovertable fact. It is, however, reasonable hypothesis, and the evidence is strong enough that it would be hard to defend against.

Given that you yourself read Whedon's published statement to that effect, it's a plausible inference that he was likely talking about Traveller, I agree. It's a lot more substantial than just "look at how similar they are; how could he not have been influenced by Traveller?"

For comparison, I think that Tolkien was influenced by Thomas Babington Macaulay in writing several scenes in LotR, including Gandalf facing off against the balrog and Theoden leading the charge of the Rohirrim, which have parallels in scenes from Lays of Ancient Rome. But I think that belief gains a lot more plausibility from the fact that Tolkien is known to have been familiar with Macaulay and in fact wrote a pastiche of "Horatius" for his school magazine, describing a rugby match. One point of contagion is worth fifty points of similarity.

Bill Stoddard