Joss Whedon based Serenity on Travellers he used to play in college...

[mearrin69]

If I saw a show with Vancian magic I guess I'd assume it was influenced by Vance. Traveller was influenced by a great deal by other fiction. Firefly could, certainly, have been influenced by Traveller...or by the same source fiction. You're all welcome to *feel* that it was influenced by Traveller but, as others have said, you'll need something more concrete to prove it.

BTW, I think "traveler" and "traveller" are two different spellings of the same word. I do not believe they are, officially anyway, pronounced differently.
M

Edit: A big conceit of the show's setting, BTW, is terraforming. How much of that goes on in Traveller? If the show was based on Traveller I'd have expected the 'Verse to be more Traveller-like.

[Jeffr0]

Originally Posted by mearrin69

BTW, I think "traveler" and "traveller" are two different spellings of the same word. I do not believe they are, officially anyway, pronounced differently.

Oh good grief.

[mearrin69]

What?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/traveller

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Jeffr0

I'm with you on this one. As soon as Wash said the line, I could clearly discern his pronunciation of the double "L".

Ex-Army officer... Ex-Other... Ex-Merchant... a psychic powered prodigy on the run from (probably) some kind of devious government agency... not to mention, plenty of situations that came off as typical rpg session hijinx.

There's a lot of fiction that got pulled together to synthesize the original Traveller and D&D implied settings. I think it's really unlikely that someone would stumble upon those same sort of blends today. (I mean really... when we're talking about marketing Traveller to a wider audience, it always gets pointed out how 50's and 60's sci-fi is just so dated anymore.)

It'd be like having a show with Vancian magic in it and then denying that the writers were influenced by D&D!

Which I would do without hesitation if the show creator said "My influence was Jack Vance". In this case we know that this show was influenced by Westerns which is why it has

Worlds who seem to be stuck in the 19th century, but only the 19th century and:

2 former "confederate" officers who after their side lost turned to banditry
1 career criminal
1 doctor to patch them up after their jobs fail to go smooth as always
1 hooker with a heart of gold
1 circuit preacher

Then it has two people who are there to provide the minimum necessary ship functions

And of course the super-powered girl with psychological issues Whedon likes so much.

How many Traveller groups do you know that have no former naval officers, no marines and no scouts? How many Traveller GMs are that foggy on how few habitable worlds can be stuffed into a single system? How many free traders that are in constant financial peril, but never have to worry about bank payments because they own their exceeding cheap horse...ship outright?

[Hans Rancke-Madsen]

Originally Posted by Drifter

The show was 'inspired' by, if not based on, Traveller.

Whedon will not, ever, state this. The least reason is copyright - if he said that he would have to write a big check to Marc Miller et al.

I strongly doubt that. None of the Traveller tropes (by which I just mean tropes that also appear in Traveller) in Firefly are copyrightable (if the were, Marc Miller would owe a lot of money to a slew of SF writers, some of which are specifically referenced in Traveller material).

Now, if Whedon had set Firefly in an empire run by someone named Cleon, he might have owed Miller something. No, wait, that would have been Asimov he owed, wouldn't it?


Hans

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Jeffr0

I'm with you on this one. As soon as Wash said the line, I could clearly discern his pronunciation of the double "L".

The pronunciation is exactly the same! The double l spelling is just the British spelling, and the older American one. My Webster's lists both spellings and says nothing about different pronunciations.

Bill Stoddard

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Jeffr0

Oh good grief.

You are the first person I have ever seen claiming that there is a difference. I'm going to need more than your expression of personal disbelief to give the claim credit.

Bill Stoddard

[Mister Ed]

I thought he was making the statement (about hearing the extra L) jokingly, and, with that "good grief", was expressing disbelief that somebody actually took him seriously enough to address the point.

I could well be wrong, but if I am, I too am at a loss as to how the extra L would sound different.

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen

Now, if Whedon had set Firefly in an empire run by someone named Cleon, he might have owed Miller something. No, wait, that would have been Asimov he owed, wouldn't it?

Of course, Marc Miller DID have an empire run by a guy called Cleon... so when will Asimov's estate be getting their cheque? ;)

[ak_aramis]

Whedon did, in an interview, admit that Firefly was based upon an RPG he played in college, IIRC, he used the words "a major science fiction RPG." That interview has been removed from the web for years now. He didn't say which one...

It is quite likely that it was Traveller - the trope set fits, except for the FTL drive... but we see a 2-mode STL drive. One that seems to do about 33 PSL, and one that is considerable slower, but uses far less fuel. (This speed is based upon taking 120 years to cross the 40 LY to the system.)

The odds of the other major Sci-Fi RPG's of 1984 being the game are slim. We're talking a handful of games. We can rule out Trek games out of hand.

• Traveller - major and best trope fit
• Space Opera - uses zapguns.
• Space Patrol - not major. Trekish. No ship rules.
• Starfaring - not major, zapguns
• Star Frontiers - major, but really poor fit. Lasers dominate personal weapons.
• Space Infantry - not major.
• Worlds of Wonder - possible, but unlikely. No ship rules.
• Champions - possible, but not seen as a sci-fi game by most; vehicles rules in a 1982 supplement. Star Hero comes out in 1989, Robot Warriors in 1986 - after college for Whedon.
• Other Suns - not major, loads of aliens.
• Spacemaster - zapguns. aliens galore.
• Starships & SPacemen - not major, trek
• STRPG - came out after he graduated - RIGHT after.
• STAGFF - Trek

Of these, the short list is

• Traveller - major and best trope fit (only FTL differs)
• Space Opera - uses zapguns and lots of aliens.
• Champions
• Other Suns - not major, loads of aliens.
• Spacemaster - zapguns. aliens galore.

Note that Traveller, despite being noted for aliens, has no aliens in core rules until 1987, and even then, only as setting elements not supported in rules.

Space Opera as a game has the rules needed - it covers much the same territory as Traveller - but lacks the plethora of habitable moons and mini-worlds. It also has lots of aliens and no reaction drives nor semi-newtonian motion.

Spacemaster was out (I got it Dec 26, 1983 same day as I got Traveller) despite some mis-listings (at RPGG, it's shown as 1985 - that's an error). But it was also brand new, and not well known. It has the same issue with FTL... but at least ships fly on reaction drives in N-space. Personal weapons are a poor fit, tho. No trade rules, either. Ships not expensive enough, either.

Other Suns - noted for aliens galore. It was from a major publisher (FGU) but was not itself major. I can't be more specific, as I never got into it.

Champions with Champions II - has the rules one needs in play, but lacks entirely the world generation process. Lacks cogent firearms examples, and Danger International, which is the HS game that does, post dates Whedon graduating.

Of the possibles, the number of coincidences is high if it's not based upon Traveller - the Serenity can be seen as a variant of either the type A or type R. My money's on a Type R - especially with the forward opening cargo bay. A lot depends on just what the dimensions of the cargo bay are. I make her externals to be roughly a 400-600 ton ship... a type R with 2 launches and a 30'x60' x30' cargo bay puts her with the right amount of cargo. (The Serenity RPG, however, would put her with a much smaller bay - 30'x40'x30' - commensurate with a variant type A - but the Type A carries an air raft, not launches. Come to think of it, Serenity does carry both a small ATV (the mule) and an air-raft (in the movie).

Preponderance of the evidence leads to a conclusion that Traveller PROBABLY is the RPG he spoke of, but it's not a given that it was.