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Old 02-08-2021, 09:59 AM   #1
oneofmanynameless
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Climbing "Dyno" Jumps

Something I've been wondering about for a long time is whether the climbing speeds include things like the sort of jumps that skilled climbers sometimes do, or if it's possible to accelerate climbing speed with a good jumping skill/super jump? (Although it would make it considerably more exhausting.)

Like, would you allow someone to make a running high jump (presumably with a better jump height due to the jumping skill) to catch a hand-hold that normally would have been out of reach (with climbing). Climb up a few feat then dyno up to another handhold however far their high jump would allow?

This sort of jump-then-cling-jump-then-cling action could result in a much faster climbing speed than those in the basic set, especially for those with a really good jumping skill, high basic move, or super jump. (Although it would also be way more exhausting then normal climbing.)

This seems like it would be more common with parkour then any sort of extended climbing activities. But I am neither a parkourer or a climber so that's just a guess.
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Old 02-08-2021, 10:19 AM   #2
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Climbing "Dyno" Jumps

It seems like it would be more difficult to get a good jumping-off point on a surface you need to climb. I'd say you can use half jumping distance for each jump, keeping in mind each requires a one-second Ready prior to it (so basically 2 seconds per jump; characters with Super Jump don't need the Ready from what I understand, so they'd be at 1 second per jump). Note this is going to be more dangerous than slower climbing, as the GM may well call for a jumping roll and a climbing roll for each jump (normal climbing I think you just roll every few minutes or so). I'd say failure on either means you don't make any progress, failure on both means you lose progress (if that isn't possible, you end up with an unstable grip, and need to spend a few seconds securing yourself before you can continue). Critical Failure probably means a fall.

As an aside, this was essentially the way I got around in City of Heroes back when I played it - you could essentially cling to windowsills and similar (provided you kept running forward), so with enhanced jumping powers you could scale nearly any surface, although it took some time if you didn't have super jump (which combined with this scaling was more akin to Flight (Requires Surface)).
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Old 02-08-2021, 10:24 AM   #3
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Climbing "Dyno" Jumps

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post

Like, would you allow someone to make a running high jump (presumably with a better jump height due to the jumping skill) to catch a hand-hold that normally would have been out of reach (with climbing). Climb up a few feat then dyno up to another handhold however far their high jump would allow?
See Martial Arts p.106 for "Tic-Tacs".

The short version is youc an do the first jump but subsequent jumps require a parallel wall as in situations where 2 buildings are close together.

Climbing speeds take into account no jumping.

Incidentally, I've never seen a character with enough Jumping Skill to improve his Jump distance. It'd be a peculiar and not really efficient build comapred to possible alternatives.
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Old 02-08-2021, 11:37 AM   #4
oneofmanynameless
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: Climbing "Dyno" Jumps

I'm aware of the tic-tac rules. I'm actually thinking about cinematic parkour characters, and parkouring video game characters, who do an abnormal number of dyno's when climbing and also climb way faster than you can climb in gurps without specialized climbing skills (usually as a result of the high number of jumps and abnormal jumping skill.)

Although I'm surprised you've never seen a character with good enough jumping to improve their jump distance. I've seen a number. Usually based on templates that have 16 dex scores and 12 HT scores (like the acrobat from GURPS Supers) resulting in a 7 basic move they don't buy up. From there even 1 cp in jumping improves your jump distance.
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Old 02-08-2021, 11:45 AM   #5
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Climbing "Dyno" Jumps

Wouldn't that just be the skill, Lizard Climb from Martial Arts? It requires Trained By A Master and a skill roll per second. But it is cinematic and less than straightforward Spider Man Clinging.
Describing it as numerous mini-jumps rather than gecko like as in MA wouldn't change how the power is written up after all.
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Old 02-08-2021, 11:56 AM   #6
oneofmanynameless
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: Climbing "Dyno" Jumps

By that logic you could also just use this as justification for Super Climbing or Clinging (requires hand-holds), maybe?
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Old 02-08-2021, 12:08 PM   #7
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Climbing "Dyno" Jumps

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
By that logic you could also just use this as justification for Super Climbing or Clinging (requires hand-holds), maybe?
I wouldn't go as far as Clinging but i have contemplated at least 1 level of Super Climbing for persons whose BL equaled or exceed one half of the body weight. They'd be able to pull themselves up with their arms alone repeatedly in a way people with lower power-to-weigth ratios shouldn't be able to..
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Old 02-08-2021, 02:58 PM   #8
Polkageist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Climbing "Dyno" Jumps

Actual climber here, dynos are a part of the skillset so I wouldn't necessarily include the jumping skill into the equation. Calling it a jump is pretty generous since a dyno can be in any direction and can cover anywhere from a couple inches to a couple feet. Also, it doesn't necessarily mean losing contact with the wall since 'dyno' comes from 'dynamic' and covers (in my opinion) a climbing move where your motion carries you through to the next hold and there is no option for recovery and retry. You either catch the hold or fall.

That means that a dyno is something you don't do unprotected (unless you're Dan Osman) and definitely don't do on an unknown wall (even Dan Osman), so is part of a high climbing skill but it's absolutely within the realm of climbing. So you see dynos appearing in the climbing skill when the climber is either climbing casually and has protection and a lot of time to add bonuses to their skill in order to perform a dyno. The other time is when a climber is wanting to go fast (like you stated) and in GURPS parlance they would be using the 'Haste' option to take a skill penalty in order to reduce the time spent doing a task. Climbing certainly fits in this, so you can take a skill penalty in order to climb faster (same thing as spending less time climbing). Since individual climbing moves are below the level of detail of the skill use, 'going fast' here would include dynos probably. If you're not especially hustling, or even taking you're taking your time a dyno is still something that climbers do when it's the right move to make.

Also, Dan Osman had an absolutely ridiculous climbing skill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e0yXMa708Y
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Old 02-08-2021, 03:13 PM   #9
oneofmanynameless
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: Climbing "Dyno" Jumps

@Polkageist
Thank you for the clarification. =)
I like the idea of using the Time Taken / Haste rules. That implies that a -5 will approximately double your climb speed (equivalent to 1 level of Super Climbing without Clinging, according to Powers).
Taking it to a cinematic extreme for characters with the Move! skill or similarly absurd abilities to absorb penalties: It would also imply that with a -10 to skill you could accomplish 5 minutes worth of climbing as a move maneuver. That would let you scale a 33.33 yard tall tree in one second out of combat, which is probably too extreme so maybe if you use the Haste/time taken rules cap your climb speed at (Half Basic Move)+(Level of Super Climbing)?

Alternatively, if you say that -10 for "instant" is impossible for the skill to accomplish and the best you could do is -9 for 10% of the time, then you could accomplish 5 minutes of climbing (33.33 yards) in 30 seconds for 1.11 yards per second.
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Old 02-08-2021, 07:39 PM   #10
Polkageist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Climbing "Dyno" Jumps

Happy to share!
Taking your time is huge while climbing, I've spent time just thinking and feeling out a problem for five or ten minutes on a wall before finally making a move. Climbing is a surprisingly thinky sport and rewards thoughtfulness and patience. I would argue that most climbers use the 'take your time' rule if we're modeling life with GURPS as a matter of course. Even the experts, because they're constantly pushing the limits of their skills. Check out "Free Solo" which is the story of Alex Honnold free soloing (that is climbing without ropes or any other sort of fall protection) El Capitan in Yosemite.

That said, speed climbing is totally a thing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e863Qr0jaYo
Definitely a good example of where the "Haste" rule would be modeling something. In this case the climber has a couple of bonuses in that they know the course well, are protected, and so they can burn those bonuses by taking hasty action penalties to climb the route as fast as possible. Note the frequent use of dynos. :)

-5 to double your climb speed seems crazy, but for a climber that's a huge risk because the penalty for failure is so high. However in a gym where you're roped up and you're familiar with the route, taking a -5 to climb it twice is fast is totally reasonable. Heck, I've raced up a route easily twice as fast as I did the first time when I was figuring it out.
-10 is cinematic so for something like climbing (or running, or swimming, or any sort of action/time action where dividing by zero is a bad idea) I'd just shave off extra. The video above is about how it's hard/impossible to break the 15m/5sec climb rate which is kinda like the real-life barrier for a mile run is a three minute mile. If it's cinematic though, break that reality barrier and ZOOM up that wall. Rocket up a 90ft pine in a second? Yeah you got wuxia powers, just wall run straight up that woody mother. I wouldn't worry so much about capping things in a cinematic game, and just use the sniff test for a realistic one. I assure you that the penalties (i.e. falling and injury) are plenty to discourage excessive haste penalties to save time.
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