Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-16-2013, 06:23 PM   #21
PK
 
PK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default Re: GURPS Thaumatology: Chinese Elemental Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I figured that is how its supposed to work but it still seems to me it could be construed the other way and should be edited for clarity.
Because I personally don't see this potential for confusion, I wouldn't be able to make this edit. Can you suggest a phrasing that you think makes this clearer without changing the actual rule in any way?
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ)

MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.

#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more!
{Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}
PK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 06:28 PM   #22
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: GURPS Thaumatology: Chinese Elemental Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by PK View Post
Because I personally don't see this potential for confusion, I wouldn't be able to make this edit. Can you suggest a phrasing that you think makes this clearer without changing the actual rule in any way?
OK.
Roll against the lower of modified Focus or unmodified Meditation skill; that
is, Focus can remove penalties for extra effort, but cannot give a net bonus over Meditation. (You are not limited by your Will score.)
Change to

Roll against the lower of modified Focus or Meditation skill; that is, Focus can remove penalties for extra effort, but cannot give a net bonus over Meditation. (You are not limited by your Will score.)

I think just removing the Unmodified here and in the example clear it up.
__________________
Looking for group in my area
My GURPS official contributions Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 06:32 PM   #23
robkelk
Untitled
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: between keyboard and chair
Default Re: GURPS Thaumatology: Chinese Elemental Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
OK.
Roll against the lower of modified Focus or unmodified Meditation skill; that
is, Focus can remove penalties for extra effort, but cannot give a net bonus over Meditation. (You are not limited by your Will score.)
Change to

Roll against the lower of modified Focus or Meditation skill; that is, Focus can remove penalties for extra effort, but cannot give a net bonus over Meditation. (You are not limited by your Will score.)

I think just removing the Unmodified here and in the example clear it up.
Removing the word "unmodified" from before Meditation lets the rules-lawyers argue that they can roll against a modified Meditation skill level, though.

The unchanged wording seems clearer than your proposed change, at least to me.
__________________
Rob Kelk
“Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.”
– Bernard Baruch,
Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950
No longer reading these forums regularly.
robkelk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 06:35 PM   #24
PK
 
PK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default Re: GURPS Thaumatology: Chinese Elemental Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
OK.
Roll against the lower of modified Focus or unmodified Meditation skill; that
is, Focus can remove penalties for extra effort, but cannot give a net bonus over Meditation. (You are not limited by your Will score.)
Change to

Roll against the lower of modified Focus or Meditation skill; that is, Focus can remove penalties for extra effort, but cannot give a net bonus over Meditation. (You are not limited by your Will score.)

I think just removing the Unmodified here and in the example clear it up.
That would change the rule in a way that made Focus useless. You should roll against the lower of "modified Focus" or "unmodified Meditation." Your change would imply that, for an extra effort of -4, you'd roll against the lower of Focus-4 or Meditation-4, which means you'd always roll against Meditation-4, rendering Focus worthless.
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ)

MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.

#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more!
{Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}
PK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 06:55 PM   #25
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: GURPS Thaumatology: Chinese Elemental Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by PK View Post
That would change the rule in a way that made Focus useless. You should roll against the lower of "modified Focus" or "unmodified Meditation." Your change would imply that, for an extra effort of -4, you'd roll against the lower of Focus-4 or Meditation-4, which means you'd always roll against Meditation-4, rendering Focus worthless.
I see the disconnect but the fix is more complicated then.
Extra Effort is a penalty to Meditation but you can offset the penalty with the Focus technique. Seems like it would take a rewrite of the whole paragraph and might not be worth it just to deal with rules lawyers or munchkins.


Ok lets try again...


Focus can not have a higher effective skill then Meditation or Will after the penalties from Extra Effort are applied and it only counters extra effort penalties.
__________________
Looking for group in my area
My GURPS official contributions Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 07:10 PM   #26
PK
 
PK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default Re: GURPS Thaumatology: Chinese Elemental Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by robkelk View Post
The unchanged wording seems clearer than your proposed change, at least to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Seems like it would take a rewrite of the whole paragraph and might not be worth it just to deal with rules lawyers or munchkins.
I'm inclined to agree. I think it's best to wait and see if this seems to be an issue that comes up frequently. After all, it's not an errata now -- as written, it works exactly as it's supposed to -- so an "edit for better clarity" would have to (A) be proven necessary and (B) be unequivocally clearer than the original phrasing.
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ)

MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.

#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more!
{Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}
PK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 09:30 PM   #27
jeff_wilson
Computer Scientist
 
jeff_wilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
Default Re: GURPS Thaumatology: Chinese Elemental Powers

Why doesn't Focus default to Meditation -4? Isn't that the usual form for penalty-canceling techniques?
__________________
.
Reposed playtest leader.

The Campaigns of William Stoddard
jeff_wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 09:32 PM   #28
PK
 
PK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default Re: GURPS Thaumatology: Chinese Elemental Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_wilson View Post
Why doesn't Focus default to Meditation -4? Isn't that the usual form for penalty-canceling techniques?
No, because there is no flat -4 penalty. The penalty for extra effort is "whatever you want it to be." So Focus works similarly to several the techniques from Gun Fu and Tactical Shooting -- you raise it above skill whatever arbitrary amount you want, but it only acts to cancel the variable penalties.
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ)

MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.

#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more!
{Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}
PK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 10:17 PM   #29
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: GURPS Thaumatology: Chinese Elemental Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by PK View Post
No, because there is no flat -4 penalty. The penalty for extra effort is "whatever you want it to be." So Focus works similarly to several the techniques from Gun Fu and Tactical Shooting -- you raise it above skill whatever arbitrary amount you want, but it only acts to cancel the variable penalties.
It's kind of an arcane notation, and it took me a while to figure it out. But it's the standard notation for this sort of thing in GURPS now. I can't think of a different way to express it that wouldn't be more confusing and harder to explain.

Bill Stoddard
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 11:09 PM   #30
the_matrix_walker
 
the_matrix_walker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lynn, MA
Default Re: GURPS Thaumatology: Chinese Elemental Powers

I have a few on my list before I get to this one... I get the impression it's going to be one of the "couple of new concepts but 85% worked examples" books, which will keep it somewhat lower on my wishlist... But there do seem to be at least a few tidbits to motivate me...
the_matrix_walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
thaumatology

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.