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Old 03-15-2007, 04:02 PM   #1
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Just something I thought up, and I thought I'd toss it out to see what people think.

This is a special enhancement for the Neutralize advantage, from Powers.
Dispelling: In addition to negating others' ability to use powers, you can also negate the effects of those powers.
You must touch, or be within the area of the effect you want to dispel in order to affect it. Touching the target of an effect, such as Mind Control, counts as touching the effect for purposes of dispelling it. If there are multiple effects with the same source on a target, and you have the Precise enhancement as well, you can choose specific effects to dispel or to leave unaffected. Dispelling has no effect on the originator of an effect, aside from any effect that the removal of the ability might have.
Make a Quick Contest of Will with the originator of the effect, as normal. If you win, the effect is dispelled, ceasing to exist or to have its effect (although permanent effects it has already caused, such as damage, remain). If the effect was switchable, then it is dispelled completely - the user must reactivate it to regain its benefit. If the effect was one that is normally always on, or a transient ability with a duration of "permanent", then it remains dispelled for a number of minutes equal to your margin of success. If the effect was transient, it remains dispelled for a number of minutes equal to your margin of success, which counts against the power's duration - if you dispel a transient ability for longer than its remaining duration, it is completely dispelled, and the user must use it again to regain its benefit. If there are multiple effects on one target, make a separate Quick Contest for each one.
This enhancement is incompatible with the Derange limitation. +50%

Dispelling Only: As per Dispelling, above, but you can only dispel effects - you cannot Neutralize someone's powers, only the effects of those powers. -50%

So, what do people think?
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Old 03-15-2007, 04:12 PM   #2
Fnordianslip
 
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Hmmm. I like it. Once I start my Wild Cards game back up, I'll have to make an NPC with this ability and test it out. Overall, it sounds pretty balanced though.
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:24 PM   #3
JoelSammallahti
 
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Looks cool and useful. Good job!
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:41 PM   #4
transmetahuman
 
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

I'm not sure that Dispelling Only should be -50%. An awful lot of abilities are "only affects the user" types (invisibility, DR, permeation, ST bonus, etc. etc.), and Dispel versus those would seem to be just as useful as Neutralize.

Just to be sure I'm following you, here - Neutralize (Dispelling Only) targeted at a character with Invisibility and Burning Attack (each with power modifiers that make them vulnerable to Neutralize) would negate the invisibility, but not the ability to make the burning attack, right?

Or is "Dispelling Only" only for effects which target other people or areas?
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:58 PM   #5
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmetahuman
I'm not sure that Dispelling Only should be -50%. An awful lot of abilities are "only affects the user" types (invisibility, DR, permeation, ST bonus, etc. etc.), and Dispel versus those would seem to be just as useful as Neutralize.
That's a fair point, and one I hadn't considered. However, given that normal Neutralize will cancel all of a character's abilities with one roll, I'd say it's not too unbalanced at -50%

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmetahuman
Just to be sure I'm following you, here - Neutralize (Dispelling Only) targeted at a character with Invisibility and Burning Attack (each with power modifiers that make them vulnerable to Neutralize) would negate the invisibility, but not the ability to make the burning attack, right?
Pretty much, yeah. Mind you, if the Invisibility is Switchable, then the target could just turn it on again - essentially, each activation of a switchable ability counts as a "new" instance of the power for purposes of dispelling.
Also, you could dispel someone's Burning Attack - you'd just have to a) take a Wait action to interrupt it, and b) either be hit by it, or have Ranged applied to your Neutralize.
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Old 03-16-2007, 08:31 AM   #6
Harald B
 
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

How about going from Static (Magic) instead? Turning on Static with Area Effect should kill off any ongoing spells in the area; adding a per second fatigue cost makes it switchable and inconvenient to use for anything more than a quick dispelling. You'll usually want to add Resistable, though omitting it makes for an interestingly powerful tool. Discriminatory is interesting for targeted dispells.
And all of this is without moving away from the raw.
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:59 PM   #7
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald B
How about going from Static (Magic) instead? Turning on Static with Area Effect should kill off any ongoing spells in the area; adding a per second fatigue cost makes it switchable and inconvenient to use for anything more than a quick dispelling.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any way, using the rules as written, to make a single-target dispel ability from Static without using Area-Effect and Selective Area - that's pretty pricey, particularly if you're tacking on Ranged as well to be able to dispel at a distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald B
You'll usually want to add Resistable, though omitting it makes for an interestingly powerful tool. Discriminatory is interesting for targeted dispells.
And all of this is without moving away from the raw.
However, I feel it's rather more expensive that strictly justified. When building a dispel power, I wanted several things:
a) A resistable advantage - I dislike automatic dispels, they're hard on players.
b) An advantage capable of targeting others - that way, you don't have to pay for a further enhancement to make it capable of affecting other targets.
c) An advantage with a duration - paying extra to make the cancelation effect last longer is also annoying.
For these reasons, Neutralize was a better choice for my purposes than Static.

Last edited by Kelly Pedersen; 03-16-2007 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 03-17-2007, 12:07 AM   #8
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any way, using the rules as written, to make a single-target dispel ability from Static without using Area-Effect and Selective Area - that's pretty pricey, particularly if you're tacking on Ranged as well to be able to dispel at a distance.
Doesn't Ranged do that by itself?
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Old 03-17-2007, 12:28 AM   #9
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery
Doesn't Ranged do that by itself?
I hadn't noticed that - you're right, Ranged would make Area Effect unnessecary.
However, my other reasons for preferring Neutralize to Static still stand.
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Old 03-17-2007, 01:23 AM   #10
transmetahuman
 
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Ranged takes care of your reasons (b) and (c), and Resistible would take care of (a) - compare:

Static (Magic, Ranged +40%, Resistible -50%) [27]

Neutralize (Magic, Ranged +40%, Dispeling +50%) [95]

The static only lasts 10 seconds, but it otherwise does everything that the Neutralize does. I'd like some kind of limitation to make Static correspond with what your Dispel Only does with Neutralize (a classic Dispel should negate effects but not abilities, IMO), but clearly Static will be cheaper and also affect everything worn and carried.

Though I'm thinking I'm either misinterpreting the effects of Static on others somehow, or ranged Static shouldn't be cheaper than ranged Neutralize.

Last edited by transmetahuman; 03-17-2007 at 01:44 AM.
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