03-05-2022, 06:45 AM | #11 |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Stick it to 'em!
I’d argue that the difference between a pike axe (pole axe, if you prefer) and a halberd is at least as negligible as that between a naginata and a spear.
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03-05-2022, 07:00 AM | #12 | |
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
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Re: Stick it to 'em!
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I haven't figured out how to post photos here but I did search and find a photo of a variety of polearms all next to each other. In that photo, it was labeled as a Pole Axe per Jeff Lord's mention in another post. The pike reference in calling it a Pike Axe, I suspect, came from it being a little longer than other polearms. However, it's length is no where near that of a pike which is 5 yards per RAW. So, I think that Pole Axe may be a better label. |
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03-05-2022, 07:04 AM | #13 |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Stick it to 'em!
The increasing charge attack damage above that of spear offered by halberd and pickaxe never made sense to me, since, in this situation, the pointy bit is the nearly identical functional part and is used in the same way; the choppy bit, which presumably gives them greater damage than a spear, should enjoy no advantage in a charge situation.
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03-05-2022, 07:06 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
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Re: Stick it to 'em!
The difference is similar. Naginata does 1D+2 damage and a Spear does 1D+1 (two handed). I described the damage differences between Pike Axe and Halberd in my last post. So, scaling for size, I'd say that your assertions of correct.
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03-05-2022, 07:20 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
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Re: Stick it to 'em!
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Last edited by Bill_in_IN; 03-05-2022 at 07:46 AM. |
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03-05-2022, 08:23 AM | #16 | ||
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Stick it to 'em!
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03-05-2022, 08:39 AM | #17 |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Stick it to 'em!
Polearms get the bonus in a charge because of their ability to impale on the same axis of movement as the target, which lets the energy of the thrust add to the energy of the target's motion. A halberd's impaling structure is not substantively different than that of a spear, so it makes sense that their damage should be equivalent when used this way. As for the striking force you mention, the chopping motion of a halberd is not along the axis of charge (probably close to 90 degrees from it), so any momentum along the axis of charge would not contribute to the energy of the chop. If a halberd chops (strikes) with greater force in a charge attack, so would a swung sword or battleaxe.
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03-05-2022, 09:18 AM | #18 | |
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
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Re: Stick it to 'em!
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Regardless of the photos, the actual weights posted in the Weapons Table, to me, is the key. These weights stayed effectively the same from the original TFT (kg) to the new TFT (lbs). The Pike Axe is heavier and longer. The laws of physics warrant more damage as a practical application. In this case, RAW makes sense but I'm biased--especially if it survived the NERFing experienced across TFT. I concur that length shouldn't really affect damage all that much, if any at all. A perfect example of that is the 5 yard long Pike. It does 2D+1. In a defense against a charge attack would be 3D+1. However, as an awkwardly wielded weapon, it does the same damage as a spear except it has more reach. It's length doesn't even give it the same base damage as applied to its intended use. This aspect was also the same on the original TFT. By the way, my friend that was into Centaurs hated Pikes for obvious reasons. |
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03-05-2022, 09:30 AM | #19 | |
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
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Re: Stick it to 'em!
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The impaling spike also has more weight/size behind it. When adding the slightly increased size to account for the weight increase (assuming that the same material is used), more damage would be associated with that. If you want to exclude Pike Axes from your games or make them equal to the Halberd in a charge attack, that's you call. It is a heavier weapon and physics dictates that it has more force associated with its hit of any kind. I believe that you can impose such granularity in TFT if you wish. But, someone in another thread about the staffblade told me that RAW doesn't allow for such granularity. Of course, I don't agree and you can add all of the granularity that you want provided that you can be consistent with it in its application to the game. Last edited by Bill_in_IN; 03-05-2022 at 09:36 AM. |
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03-05-2022, 09:36 AM | #20 |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Stick it to 'em!
I'm not disputing that the weights are different. However, the weight should be largely irrelevant in a charge. The weight of a halberd or pikeaxe is concentrated at the end of a long lever, and the combination of lever and weight is what gives them greater damage than a spear in general melee. I'm just pointing out that this lever is only useful when the weight is swung, which is exactly the wrong motion necessary to take advantage of a charge attack's momentum. A lever grants no mechanical advantage when used to poke. And so, if we want more realism, a halberd or pickaxe should do the same damage as a spear in charge situations.
That said, I think there is room for greater ST than the minimum required to wield a weapon to contribute extra damage, as I discuss here. |
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