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Old 05-31-2016, 11:55 AM   #11
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Wolf-Folk

Actually I can picture sophant wolves. A lot of the natural lifestyle of wolves encourages it. Pack hunting requires group tactics and leadership. Hierarchy and territoriality is a sort of politics. Indeed the economy of hunter-gatherers is a little like that of wolves(with the quite large caveat that humans to be effective killers must have weaponry requiring a primitive artisanship). The most noticeably human feature about hunter-gatherers is not economy but aesthetics such as mythology and art. One can picture sophant wolves having a mythology not to dissimilar to those found among humans(another species of savage pack-hunters). They probably wouldn't make cave paintings as they have no graspers, though maybe they could apply dye to a surface with their tongues. What is an intriguing idea is that they could make music or poetry out of howls.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:21 PM   #12
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Wolf-Folk

Wolves and dogs in general are way better adapted for night vision that human. They have larger pupils, letting in more light, as well as more rods in proportion to cones, making their eyes more light-sensitive but less color-sensitive. They're not on a par with cats, but they're certainly better than humans.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Wolf-Folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
Actually I can picture sophant wolves. A lot of the natural lifestyle of wolves encourages it. Pack hunting requires group tactics and leadership. Hierarchy and territoriality is a sort of politics. Indeed the economy of hunter-gatherers is a little like that of wolves(with the quite large caveat that humans to be effective killers must have weaponry requiring a primitive artisanship). The most noticeably human feature about hunter-gatherers is not economy but aesthetics such as mythology and art. One can picture sophant wolves having a mythology not to dissimilar to those found among humans(another species of savage pack-hunters). They probably wouldn't make cave paintings as they have no graspers, though maybe they could apply dye to a surface with their tongues. What is an intriguing idea is that they could make music or poetry out of howls.
Thinking about this, maybe Social Stigma (Savage) - which Cat-Folk do not have on their template - should be replaced.

Sense of Duty (Adventuring Companions) alongside of Gregarious could be justified by their upbringing in a pack.

Then add some Bad Temper (15 or less) [-5] to the mix to keep them semi-savages ;)
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Wolf-Folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavefunction View Post
Wolves and dogs in general are way better adapted for night vision that human. They have larger pupils, letting in more light, as well as more rods in proportion to cones, making their eyes more light-sensitive but less color-sensitive. They're not on a par with cats, but they're certainly better than humans.
So, let's make that less effective, say Night Vision 3.

Which gives us try #5
Code:
Wolf-Folk [40]

Attribute Modifier:
ST +1 [10]
DX +1 [20]
		
Advantages:
Acute Taste and Smell 2 [4]
Discriminatory Smell [15]
Fit [5]
Fur [1]
Night Vision 3 [3]
Teeth (Sharp) [1]
Temperature Tolerance 1 [1]
	
Disadvantages:
Gregarious	[-10]
Sense of Duty (Adventuring Companions)	[-5]
Bad Temper (15 or less) [-5]
		
Power-Ups
Acute Hearing 1-2	[2/level]
Acute Taste and Smell up to 3 [2/level]
Penetrating Voice	[1]
Speak with Animals (Specialized, Canines, -60%) [10]
Striking ST 1-2 (Bite Only, -60%) [2/level]
Temperature Tolerance 2 or 3	[1/level]
Terror (A chilling howl, anyone who hears you)	[30]
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Wolf-Folk

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Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
Is that their preference or to avoid competition with humans?
It fights their natural capacities. They see slightly better than the herd animals in those conditions.

Not quite Night Vision 5 better, probably 2-3.
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Old 05-31-2016, 02:00 PM   #16
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Wolf-Folk

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Then add some Bad Temper (15 or less) [-5] to the mix to keep them semi-savages ;)
A hunter-gathering civilization is any any case difficult to maintain and the only time I have heard of it was as a facet of the traditional agricultural and urbanist society.

Some wolves can be clients of a human kingdom. Maybe the chief swears howl-mage for his pack.

Seriously, Anderson managed to make a large and complex society of Ythrians. They were decentralized and were more a confederation then a nation or empire(they effectively had a government like Medieval Iceland), and cities were normally either factory complexes or warehouses because Ythrians needed space and were unoccupied except for their workers who were slaves until the Terrans arrived with robotics. But most Ythrians lived either by hunting or herding if they could.

I doubt that is relevant to your new race except to point out that ways to make a hunter-gatherer society above the tribal level is feasible at least among non-humans. Ythrians had certain advantages, notably mobility.

Another and very realistic method is to have each pack live independently most of the time but come together at intervals for a rendevous. Mating season is a convenient time for that.
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Last edited by jason taylor; 05-31-2016 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 05-31-2016, 03:12 PM   #17
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Wolf-Folk

To keep costs down, consider Born Biter instead of Striking ST for bites.

Also I'm not sure about higher DX. Maybe a level of Speed and a level of Move would be a better fit?
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Old 05-31-2016, 03:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Wolf-Folk

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To keep costs down, consider Born Biter instead of Striking ST for bites.

Also I'm not sure about higher DX. Maybe a level of Speed and a level of Move would be a better fit?
Since he doesn't seem to have Striking ST for initial purchase and instead as power-ups, I'm not sure how well it might keep costs down. Personally I'd probably drop that one level of Temperature Tolerance and put in Biting Mastery in its place while moving the Temp Tolerance into power ups that can be bought later using the Fur perk as justification.

I will agree that switching out DX with something like +1 to Basic Speed for 20 points might not be a bad idea, but it would probably keep costs up for the most part if the campaign using this race is also using the Overlap Rules. Brings it from being a minimum of 10 points for most classes to a minimum of 30 points.

And seeing threads like these almost makes me want to toss up a race I put together for my DF campaign.
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Last edited by Ternas; 05-31-2016 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:54 PM   #19
simply Nathan
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Wolf-Folk

Personally I think aiming for [20] would work better than aiming for [40]; I always felt the cat-folk template was a bit on the high side.

My usual canine DF race template (which I used for wolves and foxes) has been:


Discriminatory Smell[15], Blunt Claws[3], Sharp Teeth[1], Fur[1], DR 1[5]
Chummy[-5], Born Biter 2[0], Tail[0]

This comes to a total of [20].



+1 DX fits the cat-folk template because cats are stereotypically nimble; +1 instead of the +3 or +4 on full felines because DF races tend to have very near-human stats aside from ST.

HT, Per, and Will are all more stereotypically appropriate to a wolf than DX is.


Some other related threads and posts I found:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...17&postcount=3
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...62&postcount=7
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=113315

This is a subject near and dear to my heart.
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:40 AM   #20
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Wolf-Folk

I would make them pastoralists. They are well suited for that anyway; there's a reason people use herding dogs. Pastoralists can have well-organized societies and can be a serious threat to civilized societies.
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