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04-01-2021, 02:52 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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How to price ATR (AOD Only)
How would you price Altered Time Rate (Active Defense Only)?
This is the best way I can figure to create an advantage that allows you defend at the end of a turn no matter what, though the only situation I can think of when you wouldn't be able to defend at the end of your turn is All-Out Attack, but I'm sure there must be other situations. But anyway, I'm looking to price an advantage that allows you to defend (once per attack, at normal defense score) when you All-Out Attack. How would you do this? |
04-01-2021, 03:07 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)
I'm not sure if you could take All Out -25% to make ATR only usable with All-Out Attack, but if that were the case, subbing in AOD instead of AOA wouldn't seem overpowered.
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04-01-2021, 03:11 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
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Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)
I don't have time to work it out at the moment, but some heavily modified take on Duplication might get you there.
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04-01-2021, 04:44 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)
"One maneuver type only" is pretty limiting in my experience. I could easily see it being -50% or even more (look how cheap Extra Attack is compared to ATR). I think I've used -60% in the past and AoD can't stack with itself so it's not like you'd be buying a lot of levels of this. Considering that Flight is 40pts, I almost feel -60% might not be enough of a limitation.
Regardless of the price, I'd also take Standard Operation Procedure: Always uses AoD [of a specific type] so even in non-combat situations it's useful. |
04-02-2021, 06:35 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)
Cosmic +50% on an Active Defense allows it to be used even when it's otherwise unavailable. I think such a defense would work even after an All Out Attack. See PU4 for the guidelines on how to build this.
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04-02-2021, 12:38 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)
Seeing as Compartmentalized Mind (No Mental Separation) is 40 points and grants an extra Maneuver (from a limited list) and Extra Attack (Multi-Strike) is 32 points and grants an extra action to a chosen specific Maneuver I'd lean toward 40 points but could be talked down to 35 with a strong argument.
I wouldn't build it off ATR (though I feel doing so would come pretty close to 40 points, I'm just too lazy to search for appropriate Limitations when CM is already such a close fit) or allow any Limited limitations, instead making a new ability based off CM.
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04-03-2021, 01:02 AM | #7 | |||
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lynn, MA
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Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)
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That gives it a 30 point price, which sets it at the same value as an extra attack with multistrike, which covers most of the benefit of an AoA. I'd be tempted to build a wildcard technique, but it would end up convoluted and pricier in the end in all likelihood. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:
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I think that's way too big a limitation... "AoD only" is more akin to "Aspected" IMO Last edited by the_matrix_walker; 04-03-2021 at 01:06 AM. |
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04-04-2021, 01:22 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)
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The examples we're given are "dodge a surprise attack" and "parry a flail with a rapier" for example. If however you wanted to parry a surprise attack from a flail, that's basically DOUBLY undefendable so it only seems fair that you need +100% to defend against it... and if that flail happened to role a critical hit, that's a 3rd instance of "can't defend" which should probably require +150% to defend against "Cosmic Block allows you to try blocking a bullet" is like adding Blockable -5% to an attack, but usually the progression is "first it's blockable then it's parryable" so for something like using a rapier to parry a bullet, maybe you should need to take two upgrades for +100%? This especially seems fair since enhanced dodge is already a higher base cost than enhanced parry, which I believe is partly because dodging is more useful since it works against unparryable and unblockable attacks already. Enhanced Block and Enhanced Parry are worth the same, but I figure that's because the benefit of "I can block arrows with my shield" is offset by "I don't get a free attack on a succesful block against unarmed defenders" Of course if we were using the optional pyramid "dodge this" rules where ANYONE can parry bullets (at -5/-6 instead of -2/-3 to dodge, 3/57p30) then you're basically just talking about reducing the penalty. +100% would be too expensive because then you could just buy up your base parry not just to offset the penalty but to get better against non-bullets too. So +50% is okay. The idea that "it's a smaller leap from arrows to bullets than from throwing knives to bullets" when Dodge This penalizes Block/Parry equally is probably found under Parry and Block: Cover (pg 29) where blocks can ignore the speed penalty if you pass a perception check and declare a block before the attack is rolled. You only take the penalty "after a hit roll is declared" which I figure is meant "after you make the roll and declare the result" rather than "declaring I'm going to roll to hit". Pre-roll defense declarations regarding taking cover from AE attacks might be complicated by B414's "Scatter" rules (whether it will hit the hex isn't even determined until after the roll) though. To prevent the meta-game aspect (player knowing a miss vs character knowing a miss) I think maybe you could do something like if you detect someone initiating an attack (successful perception roll done before the attack is even rolled) then your MoS could be used as a bonus on a 2nd perception check to discern who the attack will hit. In this case though: any success gives perfect knowledge of where it will hit, while MoF would give a vague idea of what the roll will be. So let's say you roll a 10 on a required perception difficulty of 11: a MoS of 1 gives you an effective perception of 11 on your followup per-check to determine where the attack will end up. You roll a 15, so MoF determines a variance of 5 points. You then declare ahead of time something like a "cautiousness threshold" of how much variation you'll allow for. Someone confident they'll pass their 2nd perception check who doesn't want to avoid wasting defenses on misses can choose 0, in which case they'll only defend when they pass the roll. Someone not confident in their perceptions could choose a threshold of 3, i which case they'll still use a block if the MoF on the 2nd check is 1 or 2 or 3, but will not defend if the MoF is 4 or more. People who fail the initial check don't specify this at all, since they don't know the attack is coming. |
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04-02-2021, 04:20 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)
I'd add an advantage that lets you gain the benefits of all-out attack (choose one of extra attack, +4 to hit, +2 damage, +1/die to damage; move half your speed before attacking) without the penalties, and describe it as all-out attacking. Somewhere in the 40 point range looks correct.
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Tags |
active defense, all-out attack, altered time rate |
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