[THS] [Ultratech] Might Minifacs Make Multiple Medicines?

[DataPacRat]

Originally Posted by DataPacRat

- Minifac (UTp90): 100 lbs, $50/hr->day, $50k

Originally Posted by DataPacRat

. Fabricator feedstock (UTp90,93), 500 lbs, $5k

Can a TL10 minifac (pUT90) be used to make drugs, instead of conventional hardware?

GURPS/THS have a pile of TL10 medicines and chemicals (pUT204-5, pBT148-158, pTHS163-4, etc), any one of which might suddenly be of use to a pilot out between planets. Could a standard minifac fab these up at the standard rates, or would the user need to fab up UT's "Factory Production Line" to manufacture any given drug, or try some other approach? (THS and UT mention 'vatfacs', and BT 'fauxflesh', but more in the context of making foods rather than more complicated organics. And BT's 'biofab' is for cloning.)

pUT197 suggests a one-dose disposable hypo is 0.01 lbs... so for making drugs should I apply the line on pUT90, that a 0.01 lb item takes 20 times the standard time to fab? pTHS162 says a pneumospray hypo weighing 0.25 lbs holds 100 doses, which implies an even steeper penalty...

Would it be worthwhile adding a note about the inventory of fabricator feedstock, that as well as packaged parts, sheet metal, circuit boards, metal powders, and the like, some portion is also dedicated towards organic chemical feedstock?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DataPacRat

Can a TL10 minifac (pUT90) be used to make drugs, instead of conventional hardware?

Fabricators say they require appropriate chemicals as feedstock, so presumably they aren't used for chemical synthesis. I'd use a vatfac. That's really a campaign decision, though; a realistic fabricator is likely to be vastly more limited than the systems in UT (for objects that don't require customization, should cost more than conventional manufacturing; 3d printing and the like only really makes sense for small production runs), so it's just a matter of how generous the GM wants to be.

[Ulzgoroth]

I'd generally lean to no, not a standard-listing one as written. A fabricator builds solid objects up. Even working 'one molecular layer at a time' it's not a synthetic chemistry kit.

It could build a synthetic chemistry kit, to be sure.

On the other hand, some of the phrasing, and the indications that they can be fed on scraps and elemental materials, suggests that it might have a chemistry set hidden somewhere to produce the polymers and inorganic compounds that the assembly portion actually works with. If that capability is present you might be able to exploit it to do a pharmaceutical synthesis. It's possible that doing so would be an off-specification use of the fabricator and require custom software.


EDIT: A vatfac seems like it might only work if you have ready access to a cultureable organism that produces the needed compound. You could carry around a library of those relatively easily but building one from data and molecules if you don't have the right sample on hand might take some work. Maybe the early wet nanofactory would be more the go-to for an on-demand pharmacopia?

[Varyon]

I wouldn't expect a stock minifac to be able to do it, but so long as the drug is readily able to be synthesized (note a lot of them require a biological intermediate, at least here in late-ish TL 8), there's probably a minifac-like device that could do it. However, you'll need to supply it with the necessary stock of chemicals, so unless you don't think you can anticipate what drugs you'll need and have a rather harsh weight limit, I suspect you'd be better off just stocking up on the needed drugs anytime you're in port.

[DataPacRat]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

It could build a synthetic chemistry kit, to be sure.

Originally Posted by Varyon

I wouldn't expect a stock minifac to be able to do it, but so long as the drug is readily able to be synthesized (note a lot of them require a biological intermediate, at least here in late-ish TL 8), there's probably a minifac-like device that could do it.

Current thoughts: Take the price of a drug, and a weight of a dose as being a hundredth of a hypospray; then look at pUT89 to work out the stats of a "factory production line" to make that drug. Then have the minifac create /that/.

Eg:
- Aspirin (pBT149) factory production line. Aspirin: $0.03 per dose, 0.0025 lbs per dose. Line produces one dose per 21.6 seconds, line costs $12, line weighs 0.12 lbs (55g). Line can be manufactured by minifac in 14.4 minutes.
- Sobriety Pill (pBT158), $2/dose, 0.0025 lbs/dose. Line produces 1 dose per 24 minutes, line costs $800, line weighs 8 lbs. Line can be manufactured by minifac in 16 hours.
- Genericillin (pBT150), $25/dose, 0.0025 lbs/dose. Line produces 1 dose per 5 hours, line costs $10k, line weighs 100 lbs. Line can be manufactured by minifac in 200 hours (8.3 days).

Not /particularly/ convenient, except for the least expensive ones; but it seems to be more reasonable than letting a 3D printer synthesize the chemicals directly, while still offering the opportunity to handle unexpected situations while a freebooter is booting freely around. (And besides drugs, other substances are also options - glues, lubricants, inks, cleansers, etc.)

Can anyone think of any interesting plot-worthy consequences of this approach, or another approach that offers even more interesting plot points?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by DataPacRat

Can a TL10 minifac (pUT90) be used to make drugs, instead of conventional hardware?

As others have said, probably no. The clincher might be that the unit in question gives a bonus to Machinist Skill.

However, the Wet Nanofabrication systems described on p.91 look more promising. There are no stats given fr a multi-purpose unti but I'd just use the cost and weight of one of the TL10 facs on p.90, change the Skill bonus to a more appropriate Skill and prodice desired chemicals by $ value only.

That seems a lot simpler than setting up a robotic production line.

[DangerousThing]

I am preparing a game where a TL 12 nanofac might be available to the characters.

The nanofac starts at TL 11. This one is nerfed in that it can create the given amount of material per day rather than per hour. This way I prevent it from taking over all trade.

At TL 12, though, it is as the book stats it.

However, I do feel that while a nanofac can create drugs, it can't do it very efficiently. So when doing things that I consider complex, the rate is divided by anywhere from 2 to 10, depending on the complexity. And some things just can't be done. For example, I wouldn't allow the creation of viruses.

If the characters had access to a replicator, on the other hand, they could make almost anything. In my game replicators start at TL 13, which is unavailable.

[DataPacRat]

Just came across another option to consider...

Pyramid 37, p32, proposes a "Biosynthesis Station"; at TL10, it's 45 cubic feet, probably weighs 333 lbs, and costs $5k; and a unit of its feedstock is 30 lbs and $200, good to make 18 lbs of organic goops, of which a pound can be made per minute. (Including, but not limited to, "cleaning enzymes, cornstarch, egg whites, silk thread, ... glue and paint, various simple medications (a pain reliever, insulin, vitamin pills)".)

For inspiration of what's available, I might turn to "Henley's Twentieth Century Book of Recipes, Formulas and Processes" from 1914, itself available at https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/53143 .


Edit: A lot of vitamins became available in the 1950's, and BioTech pegs them at TL7; I'm thinking of pegging this Biosynthesis Station as being able to manufacture substances of its TL-2: TL7 for a TL9 station, TL8 for a TL10 one.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by DataPacRat

Just came across another option to consider...

Pyramid 37, p32, proposes a "Biosynthesis Station"; at TL10, it's 45 cubic feet, probably weighs 333 lbs, and costs $5k; and a unit of its feedstock is 30 lbs and $200, good to make 18 lbs of organic goops, of which a pound can be made per minute. (Including, but not limited to, "cleaning enzymes, cornstarch, egg whites, silk thread, ... glue and paint, various simple medications (a pain reliever, insulin, vitamin pills)".)

For inspiration of what's available, I might turn to "Henley's Twentieth Century Book of Recipes, Formulas and Processes" from 1914, itself available at https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/53143 .


Edit: A lot of vitamins became available in the 1950's, and BioTech pegs them at TL7; I'm thinking of pegging this Biosynthesis Station as being able to manufacture substances of its TL-2: TL7 for a TL9 station, TL8 for a TL10 one.

From the description, it should be able to synthesize any peptide you want with no fuss.

The limit on functional proteins, and thus indirectly on non-peptide products, is (A) knowing the sequences for the desired result and (B) having any necessary supports to get the proteins to fold and otherwise assemble successfully.

In THS, if that's still where you're coming from, that information probably exists for almost any desired organic molecule, but it may often be proprietary. Also, your biosynth station may bill you for royalties. (If you're mainly coming from the non-infosocialist side of the street, that is.)

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

For example, I wouldn't allow the creation of viruses.

If nothing else, nanofacs available on the open market probably have safeties, much like modern copiers simply won't faithfully reproduce money. They might also have anti-Von Neumann protocols in place.