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Old 02-17-2021, 10:58 AM   #1
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Pricing for attack/Malediction hybrid

Here's the build I'm trying to make for an Affliction enhancement:
1) Make a normal ranged attack, using all normal size/range modifiers but no 1/2D or Max, and the target able to dodge normally.
2) On a successful hit, determine the winner of a Quick Contest as normal for Malediction, but with no penalty for range.

Obviously, the first comparison will be to Malediction (SSRT modifiers), +150%. But I'm not sure if this would be better or worse than that. Adding multiple points of failure is a major downside, but it means that on a successful hit, you're a lot more likely to win the QC, and by a higher margin than you otherwise would.

Thoughts?
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Old 02-17-2021, 11:17 AM   #2
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: Pricing for attack/Malediction hybrid

Unless I misremember, there's a limitation called Resistible. To make it like a Malediction it would be based on Will.
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Old 02-17-2021, 11:26 AM   #3
awesomenessofme1
 
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Default Re: Pricing for attack/Malediction hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Unless I misremember, there's a limitation called Resistible. To make it like a Malediction it would be based on Will.
What? It's an Affliction.
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Old 02-17-2021, 12:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pricing for attack/Malediction hybrid

It seems like a follow up attack.

The main attack is an Innate attack with makes 0 pt of damage and ignores armour. It acts as a "carrier"

The "follow up" is what you consider as the "malediction". It has been "carried" by the main attack so its effective range is now 0.
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Old 02-17-2021, 01:49 PM   #5
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: Pricing for attack/Malediction hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
What? It's an Affliction.
I think one or both of us in not understanding something.
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Old 02-17-2021, 02:05 PM   #6
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Pricing for attack/Malediction hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvalero View Post
It seems like a follow up attack.

The main attack is an Innate attack with makes 0 pt of damage and ignores armour. It acts as a "carrier"

The "follow up" is what you consider as the "malediction". It has been "carried" by the main attack so its effective range is now 0.
This sounds like the most appropriate, although I think Malediction counts as a "Penetration Modifier" and is thus incompatible with Follow-Up. Also, it's possible requiring a carrier attack would actually make the metatrait cost more, which is obviously not appropriate. IDHMBWM, but is it an option to combine Malediction with Long Range? That seems like the way to make a Malediction that doesn't suffer range penalties on the Quick Contest (IIRC, each level of Long Range is one shift forward along the axis of -1 per yard -> SSR -> Long Distance Modifiers -> No Range Penalty; you'd need to shift it to the last entry, although realistically the second to last is probably sufficient, given you still need to pass the attack roll). Still needing to pass an attack roll is arguably something like Requires (Attribute/Skill) Roll; the attack roll being at a penalty based on SSR is worth a further Limitation, possibly doubling the value of Requires (Attribute/Skill) Roll.
EDIT: Alternatively, apply some sort of "Quick Contest Only" Limitation to the last level (or two, if you really need to get all the way to No Range Penalty) of Long Range; the Long Range effect applies only to the QC, not to the initial success roll, which takes SSR penalties.
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Last edited by Varyon; 02-17-2021 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 02-17-2021, 02:11 PM   #7
transmetahuman
 
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Default Re: Pricing for attack/Malediction hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvalero View Post
It seems like a follow up attack.

The main attack is an Innate attack with makes 0 pt of damage and ignores armour. It acts as a "carrier"

The "follow up" is what you consider as the "malediction". It has been "carried" by the main attack so its effective range is now 0.
You can't have a Malediction as a Follow-Up attack; it would just be an Affliction - which you probably already knew.

Just off the top of my head, the carrier attack would be a 1 damage Innate Attack, with and Max range bought up to the point where your range mod would drop your chance of hitting to negligible (having a -20 to hit from size/speed/range makes a "maximum range" irrelevant), Cosmic +300% to ignore armor, and No Blunt Trauma, No Knockback, and No Wounding for -80%.

You might run into trouble with aiming at a skyscraper at an enormous range giving you a higher than negligible chance to hit than you've bought off with increased range, but target size mod affects the resistance roll for the Affliction too, so it should be easy enough to come up with a maximum range that will never come into play, just like you can set a level of DR that counts as "Invulnerable" if that level will never come up.

Oh - and the cost of Follow-Up on that Affliction will be the same as that Increased Range, plus probably the Cosmic +300% (it's certainly a "penetration modifier", whether it's listed under Follow-Up or not). Which might end up making it way too expensive even if the carrier attack cost is negligible.

Last edited by transmetahuman; 02-17-2021 at 02:29 PM. Reason: Many afterthoughts, typos, and clarifications
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Old 02-17-2021, 02:39 PM   #8
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Pricing for attack/Malediction hybrid

You could have Malediction with a Follow Up attack, though I do not know why you would want that (it would likely be cheaper and simpler to just have the Follow Up attack instead be the primary attack in that case).
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Old 02-17-2021, 02:52 PM   #9
transmetahuman
 
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Default Re: Pricing for attack/Malediction hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
You could have Malediction with a Follow Up attack, though I do not know why you would want that (it would likely be cheaper and simpler to just have the Follow Up attack instead be the primary attack in that case).
Malediction and Follow-Up are both Penetration Modifiers, so you can't have both on the same attack. You can have it on a carrier attack, in which case the cost of Follow-Up is increased by the same +100%/+150%/+200%, but in that case the Follow-Up Affliction would take the same range penalties as the carrier (or perhaps just use the same roll as the carrier, which in any case takes range mods).
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Old 02-17-2021, 03:07 PM   #10
transmetahuman
 
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Default Re: Pricing for attack/Malediction hybrid

Oh. The OP wanted a quick contest to resist the Affliction, not a straight HT or Will roll. That also cuts off my other suggestion, using a high damage IA with sufficiently Increased Range and No Wounding.

Personally, I might allow a Quick Contest on an Affliction as a 0 point feature, especially if you're using Skills For Everyone with your Powers, but I haven't thought it through.
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