[DF] Race Option Suggestions

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by scc

All suggestions must be sexable, I want to maximize player choice by halving all these races inter-breed. This is why no Dwarves, half-Dwarves aren't really a thing.

I'm not sure I understand this requirement. If the issue is that half-Dwarves generally aren't a thing in Fantasy, that seems like it would also disqualify Naga. If it's that typical depictions of them are typically unattractive, that seems like it would also disqualify Ogres (and while there are plenty of depictions of Ogres that are attractive - particularly if you include the Japanese red/blue oni as Ogres - it's also not difficult at all to find depictions of Dwarves that are attractive; sure, they tend to be on the thick side - or "thicc," if you prefer - but the same is often true of Ogres).

Originally Posted by scc

Not really, could exist, but No Legs is kind of a hammer on exploring on land.

Doesn't stop the Naga. No Legs (Slithers) seems a legitimate option for merfolk. Tactics Ogre: Knight of Lodis had mermaids move this way; they were markedly faster on water tiles, but could still move on land decently well.
Comedically, you could opt instead for No Legs (Bounces), with their fish half doing a "fish flopping on land" kind of thing to move around. Mermaids moving in this fashion can be rather distracting - characters who are attracted to females and have Lecherousness must make a Self Control roll at the start of their turn after a mermaid moves a Step or more - Failure means they Do Nothing that turn, Critical Failure means they are Mentally Stunned (or walk into a wall, whatever is more appropriate at the time).

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by scc

((re: merfolk)) Not really, could exist, but No Legs is kind of a hammer on exploring on land.

That's why I specified Poul Anderson merfolk. They're conventionally bipedal water-and-air-breathers who look quite human; I forget what Anderson specifies, but they may have minor odd features (glittery eyes, webbed fingers and toes), and they are physically quite resilient (being able to survive in cold seas). They're also technically soulless and ungodly beings, making them susceptible to religious exorcism; you may be able to give them other odd supernatural problems in DF terms.

Originally Posted by scc

Pixie, size and the ability to fly are a problem, and what do Leprechauns do?

Be ridiculously lucky and have an aptitude for craftsmanship? Have deeply annoying faith-and-begorrah speech patterns?

Originally Posted by scc

In relation to my last post, I forgot Shadow or Dark Elves, I want to make those a thing as well and they should do a a thief race, and Hobgoblins are in the maybe category, making Goblins annoying runts that cause problems and very cheap backup for the PC's.

Dark elves can be interesting, but in game terms may just be elves with very high pseudo-melanin levels and an excuse for angsty bad attitudes. As you've already got orcs and ogres, adding hobgoblins as well sounds like overcrowding in that niche.

I realise that lizard-folk break the "must be interfertile with others" rule, but how about dragon-folk descended from matings between humans and shapeshifting great dragons? Scales on the hands and skull, short claws, and an aptitude for magic. Digging out my copy of Nyambe, I rather like the Unthlatu dragon-people in there; swamp dwelling guerrilla fighters with maybe a hint of crocodile in their ancestry, and the option to have breath weapons and energy immunity keyed to the type of dragon they're descended from.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

I realise that lizard-folk break the "must be interfertile with others" rule...

Nothing is un-mate-able to a sufficiently horny individual.

Originally Posted by scc

All suggestions must be sexable, I want to maximize player choice by halving all these races inter-breed. This is why no Dwarves, half-Dwarves aren't really a thing.

Humans with beards exist and have kids. Short humans exist and have kids. What makes dwarves different?

I'm kind of confused as to what the rules are on "must be sexable".

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by scc

Not really, could exist, but No Legs is kind of a hammer on exploring on land.

The suggestion was merfolk with legs. "Poul Anderson" was not how I would have described that. I would have said "merfolk with legs".



Magic the Gathering has been enamored with merfolk with legs as of late, so if you want art on the concept, there is a lot of it floating around. They emphasize the "fish" aspect more than the ones with just tails. D&D might call them locathah, but the MtG art really is better.

[Varyon]

I should note here that something like "No Dwarves/Merfolk because I don't want them" is a perfectly legitimate response to these suggestions. It's just that the qualifications you've given - "No Dwarves because they aren't 'sexable'" and "No Merfolk because they can't function out of the water" - have pretty easy workarounds (if Humans and Naga can interbreed and produce a hybrid, Humans and Dwarves should certainly be able to, and there's no reason to suppose Dwarves are going to be ugly, particularly if Ogres aren't; and land-capable Merfolk really aren't that difficult to work out).

[Astromancer]

Why not say humanity used to be one. But they were broken up into elementally aligned races.

The elements would be Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Wood, and Metal.

Nagas are clearly water.

Elves seem right for wood.

Orcs in Italian folklore (yes they're evil faeries from Italy, "you smell like an Orc!" was a common insult until about a generation ago) are associated with swamps, and are thought to be a mythic reflection of people choked to death by sudden methane releases, a thing I am told happens in Italian swamps. But one type of Orc, the Orchi, is said to be a giant that can turn into mist and lives in the clouds.

So let Orcs be Orchi and have Body of Air and a foul stench. Which gives us air creatures.

Since giant types are mythically associated with either air or earth, and Orchi got Air, give Ogres Earth.

This leaves you needing fire and metal.

A Leprechaun/Gnome type focused on wealth and craft working could fit metal. Greed for metals, a valuable commodity, would fit nicely. Note: I'm dealing with more folkloric gnomes here. They could pass for short humans.

The Jinn seem like a good fire choice. Low power Jinn are common in older Arabian tales.

[scc]

Originally Posted by Balor Patch

My objection to DF races has always been that humans aren't appealing, at least mechanically. Races may force purchase of some less useful advantages and the points from having extra disadvantages aren't free but for every niche there is a race more optimized than a human.

If the humans don't excel at a specific niche then don't have them.

Personally I'm not too fond of the whole races fits a niche thing, at least not without genetic engineering, it's too neat. And designing them for adventuring roles, so opposed ones for society at large, really rubs me wrong.

That said I'm already doing it, but I want to do my best to avoid making race equal class. And my humans will have a niche, being social.

Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw

Give them long tails that function like snakes on land.

That would require long tails, likely at least 5 yards or more, that's rather at odds with the common depiction.

Originally Posted by Varyon

I'm not sure I understand this requirement. If the issue is that half-Dwarves generally aren't a thing in Fantasy, that seems like it would also disqualify Naga. If it's that typical depictions of them are typically unattractive, that seems like it would also disqualify Ogres (and while there are plenty of depictions of Ogres that are attractive - particularly if you include the Japanese red/blue oni as Ogres - it's also not difficult at all to find depictions of Dwarves that are attractive; sure, they tend to be on the thick side - or "thicc," if you prefer - but the same is often true of Ogres).

The difference is that Dwarves appear a lot, Naga don't. Adding a new race to the mix, and saying that they cross-breed with humans and Elves is a lot less jarring then saying in this universe Dwarves are. And attractiveness has nothing to do with this.

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

That's why I specified Poul Anderson merfolk. They're conventionally bipedal water-and-air-breathers who look quite human; I forget what Anderson specifies, but they may have minor odd features (glittery eyes, webbed fingers and toes), and they are physically quite resilient (being able to survive in cold seas). They're also technically soulless and ungodly beings, making them susceptible to religious exorcism; you may be able to give them other odd supernatural problems in DF terms.

Then are they even merfolk? What you're describing is any number of other fish based monster humanoids.

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Dark elves can be interesting, but in game terms may just be elves with very high pseudo-melanin levels and an excuse for angsty bad attitudes. As you've already got orcs and ogres, adding hobgoblins as well sounds like overcrowding in that niche.

Ogres are big, dumb, and really strong. Orcs are fitting into the Dwarf shaped whole, a little bit stronger, but more industrial then anything, but some are good with axes and maces, unusually somewhat allied with Elves, as they make weapons for them to enchant. Hobgoblins then can fill the semi-wild races slot, being either civilized or evil and lizardmen slide into the vacant Orc slot, being where the barbarian hordes come from. Dark Elves then fill a sneaky role, natural ninja and the like.

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

I realise that lizard-folk break the "must be interfertile with others" rule, but how about dragon-folk descended from matings between humans and shapeshifting great dragons? Scales on the hands and skull, short claws, and an aptitude for magic. Digging out my copy of Nyambe, I rather like the Unthlatu dragon-people in there; swamp dwelling guerrilla fighters with maybe a hint of crocodile in their ancestry, and the option to have breath weapons and energy immunity keyed to the type of dragon they're descended from.

Something like that would be handled like in DF with being of planer heritage, so you can be half each of dragon, Elf and Orc

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Why not say humanity used to be one. But they were broken up into elementally aligned races.

The elements would be Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Wood, and Metal.

Nagas are clearly water.

Elves seem right for wood.

Orcs in Italian folklore (yes they're evil faeries from Italy, "you smell like an Orc!" was a common insult until about a generation ago) are associated with swamps, and are thought to be a mythic reflection of people choked to death by sudden methane releases, a thing I am told happens in Italian swamps. But one type of Orc, the Orchi, is said to be a giant that can turn into mist and lives in the clouds.

So let Orcs be Orchi and have Body of Air and a foul stench. Which gives us air creatures.

Since giant types are mythically associated with either air or earth, and Orchi got Air, give Ogres Earth.

This leaves you needing fire and metal.

A Leprechaun/Gnome type focused on wealth and craft working could fit metal. Greed for metals, a valuable commodity, would fit nicely. Note: I'm dealing with more folkloric gnomes here. They could pass for short humans.

The Jinn seem like a good fire choice. Low power Jinn are common in older Arabian tales.

Oh, no. Any elemental influence would be on a separate 'dial' from you're base race, you could add templates for being 'touched' by the elemental planes. And then there's another one for nymphs, nature touched girls who are playful but not automatically sexual.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Originally Posted by scc

The difference is that Dwarves appear a lot, Naga don't. Adding a new race to the mix, and saying that they cross-breed with humans and Elves is a lot less jarring then saying in this universe Dwarves are. And attractiveness has nothing to do with this.

So are you saying that you don't want to use dwarves because they are both common and typically do not include portrayals of hybrid offspring?

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by scc

Then are they even merfolk? What you're describing is any number of other fish based monster humanoids.

The one-fishy-tail depiction of merfolk is relatively modern and (I think) mostly the product of visual art. Really, "merfolk" is just a term for, yes, any number of fish-based monster humanoids. I think that Poul Anderson specifically mentioned Matthew Arnold's "The Forsaken Merman" as his inspiration, and that in turn references a story from folklore; the idea that merfolk (named as such) can emerge from the sea, walk on land, and marry and have children with humans goes way back.

Two related alternatives are (a) The Splash option -- merfolk are involuntary shape-shifters, switching between tail and legs depending on local moisture levels, or (b) Go for "Selkies" rather than merfolk -- skin-changers who can transform into seals.

Originally Posted by scc

Ogres are big, dumb, and really strong. Orcs are fitting into the Dwarf shaped whole, a little bit stronger, but more industrial then anything, but some are good with axes and maces, unusually somewhat allied with Elves, as they make weapons for them to enchant.

Any race labelled "orcs" who ally with elves are going to start too many geeks screaming in pain. Orcs are far too widely assumed to be the baseline footsoldiers of evil armies, and to be the antithesis of elves. If you want dwarfs, why not have... dwarfs? You can make them slightly non-standard dwarfs, which seems less egregious than coming up with radically changing elf-friending beard-and-axe-loving orcs.

Which reminds me; you don't have gnomes. These can be anywhere on the spectrum from D&D-ish skinny dwarfs with a talent for clockwork and illusion magic to the original low-end earth elementals.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

You can make them slightly non-standard dwarfs, which seems less egregious than coming up with radically changing elf-friending beard-and-axe-loving orcs.

At least one depiction of dwarves I've recently seen has them as short-ish humans with beards and slightly pointed ears: basically shorter, beardy elves. These are based of the original Norse myths, where I think it's not always clear that there are exact separations between labeled "dwarves" and things labeled "elves".