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Old 08-26-2020, 01:25 PM   #1
Shostak
 
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Default An Alternate Approach to Talents

The IQ prerequisite for talents carried over from original TFT to the Legacy Edition, with some talents requiring as much as IQ 14 to learn. Is this still desirable when it is so difficult to progress beyond 38 attribute points? It makes sense that some talents should require a higher IQ than others, but do they need such a wide spread? What if the IQ requirements were capped at 12? Or even 11? It seems to me that this would encourage a wider diversity starting characters and paths to desired mid- and advanced characters . Has anyone tried something like this at their table?
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Old 08-26-2020, 02:22 PM   #2
hcobb
 
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Default Re: An Alternate Approach to Talents

The problem with Heroes in Legacy isn't the IQ needed to learn talents but rather the IQ needed to effectively use them.

A flinger with IQ 11 and remove traps is worse off than an IQ 17 Molly with Alertness at finding traps.
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Old 08-26-2020, 02:45 PM   #3
Skarg
 
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Default Re: An Alternate Approach to Talents

I feel the IQ requirements for talents are relatively modest as they are. I like the original flavor that higher-end talents require significant investment/dedication and are not available to most characters unless/until they invest in IQ. And I'm already fairly annoyed by the new starting characters that contort to start with the new expert weapon talents.

I think I'd sooner make the effective attribute cap less severe, than dilute the talent IQ requirements.
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Old 08-26-2020, 02:48 PM   #4
Axly Suregrip
 
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Default Re: An Alternate Approach to Talents

I see it more as a problem with spells instead of talents. And either fighters or wizards, I like that it forces a trade off. You just cannot have everything.

IQ 14 talents are attainable with beginning characters (barring prereqs). A bookish character can start with ST8 DX10 IQ14. Or a 40 point fighter with ST11 DX15 IQ14 is quite deadly and knowledgable.

Now with spells, the top shelf spells are at IQ20. Unattainable with beginning characters, even elves and goblins (as it should be). A 40 point wizard would be ST8 DX12 IQ20. This is not good for combat situations for experienced characters. Or if your intent of all that IQ was to create magic items, you really want DX15 as missed DX rolls can get costly. If you are looking for an experienced combat wizard a higher DX would be advisable and thus the IQ20 is out of reach for combat wizards. Generally speaking. Say ST8 DX15 IQ17 for a 40 point combat wizard. That is formidable.

Magic item creation is the real problem. Greater and Lesser Magic item creation will be difficult. Costs should be changed for these to reflect this.
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Old 08-26-2020, 03:15 PM   #5
Shostak
 
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Default Re: An Alternate Approach to Talents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
I like the original flavor that higher-end talents require significant investment/dedication and are not available to most characters unless/until they invest in IQ. And I'm already fairly annoyed by the new starting characters that contort to start with the new expert weapon talents.
Talents with a lowered IQ prerequisite could have an attribute total prerequisite that would still put them out of reach for beginning characters.

I agree with Axly that some of the spell IQ prerequisites no longer seem appropriate. An attribute total prerequisite could serve again here to still keep the spells out of beginnig or even mid-level characters while allowing for a more diverse distribution of ST, DX, and IQ.
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Old 08-26-2020, 04:19 PM   #6
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: An Alternate Approach to Talents

The prerequisites are good as they are; they are what allows for a diversity of interesting characters. Relax them, and you will see PC's collapse to a narrower range of 'builds' as IQ becomes a sort of dump stat
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Old 08-26-2020, 04:48 PM   #7
Shostak
 
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Default Re: An Alternate Approach to Talents

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
The prerequisites are good as they are; they are what allows for a diversity of interesting characters. Relax them, and you will see PC's collapse to a narrower range of 'builds' as IQ becomes a sort of dump stat
With talents like Chemist, Locksmith, Mimic, Animal Handler, Naturalist, etc. requiring success rolls against IQ, I don't think IQ will be in danger of becoming a dump stat. Even more so because your beginning number of talents is still tied to it.
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Old 08-26-2020, 09:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: An Alternate Approach to Talents

I agree that there are plenty of reasons for a character to maintain a decent IQ score that have nothing to do with talent or spell acquisition. In my own game, I have eliminated most IQ requirements for talents and spells, relying instead on a tier-based structure tied to the character's overall progression.
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: An Alternate Approach to Talents

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Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
I have eliminated most IQ requirements for talents and spells, relying instead on a tier-based structure tied to the character's overall progression.
I.e. levels?
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Old 08-27-2020, 01:36 AM   #10
Steve Plambeck
 
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Default Re: An Alternate Approach to Talents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
The IQ prerequisite for talents carried over from original TFT to the Legacy Edition, with some talents requiring as much as IQ 14 to learn. Is this still desirable when it is so difficult to progress beyond 38 attribute points?
I say nay, this is highly undesirable. I'd much rather see attribute progression much, much easier, with plenty of tasty high IQ talents available to tempt one to choose IQ increases over increasing ST or DX to "superhero" levels. Then the choice is more between getting better at something the character already does (boring after awhile), or acquiring totally new, character-defining abilities (interesting).

I'd like to see talents above IQ 14. I'd like to see several of the existing talents, especially expert talents, kicked up higher on the tables.

I also see it as an inequity that increasing IQ alone is no longer sufficient for taking any new or upgraded talents at all. For example, an IQ 11 figure that starts with Physicker not only needs to increase their IQ by 3 points to qualify to take Master Physicker (IQ 14), but after completing that daunting task still needs another 1,000 XP to buy the "talent points". Divert any XP to raising a survival attribute, ST or DX, or taking any other talent along the way to help keep the character alive, and the player is looking at years of playing time to achieve just this one relatively modest goal.
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