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Old 05-13-2014, 08:19 PM   #41
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Ultratech Sleep/Paralysis Agents

Microdrones with adjustable dosing capability. They stop when they reach the wanted effect.
THS could certainly do it, and maybe even realistic TL 10 darts could as well.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:14 PM   #42
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Default Re: Ultratech Sleep/Paralysis Agents

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Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
But the real bitch for a realistic unconsciousness/paralytic agent is the differing resistance of individuals, as others have noted. Some people in GURPS terms just have high or low basic HT, and even a person with otherwise low HT might be naturally resistant to a given drug.
Honestly, I don't think any human-like amount of HT should be enough to resist a standard dose of a hypothetical ultratech "smart" drug. Resistance is another matter, but we have to assume that resistance would be rare to nonexistent (because if it wasn't, this wouldn't be a very good drug, and the point is to end up with a very good drug).

Of course, if you start throwing around ultradrugs that always work, people will complain - and rightly so! - that you're screwing them out of their investment in HT. So there's realistic, and then there's game and world design.

I have to think that a sufficiently advanced drug might be impossible to OD on - though this requires a fair bit of handwaving. If it's already a tailored enzyme or nanotech, then maybe high serum levels cause an inhibitory effect that causes the drug to last longer instead of becoming too effective, and, uh, quantum something.
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:02 PM   #43
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Default Re: Ultratech Sleep/Paralysis Agents

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Originally Posted by Xplo View Post
Honestly, I don't think any human-like amount of HT should be enough to resist a standard dose of a hypothetical ultratech "smart" drug.
Depends on what you mean by 'smart' and what you mean by 'standard dose'. The problem with drugs is that the 100% effective dose is generally higher than the 0% lethal dose, not that there is no dose that's 100% effective or 0% lethal.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:17 AM   #44
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Ultratech Sleep/Paralysis Agents

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Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
I really appreciate the excellent discussion on this, thanks everyone.

I'm curious, do people agree with Ultratech that gases or aerosols are the way to go or should injections be a legitimate contender?

.
Gasses that work through inhalation are the mechanism that should bw excluded. That's at the core of the "does control" problem. A persistent gas gets breathed in every round in amounts that vary with lung size and metabolism.

As I've said before UT doesn't use any of these sorts of agents. Sleep "gas" isn't really a gas. UT uses aerosolized liquids and contact agents. If you can control droplet size you can have liquids precipitate out of the air relatively quickly. You can also spray liquid agents from a grenade over a more controlled area and use agents with a shorter active period. It's all much more controllable than pumping a true gas in through the ventilation system.

For injectables you do need an agent that works in small doses but you'll end up with something at least as practical as a taser dart. Even one of those that's self-contained and doesn't trail wires.

Liquid contact agents might even be practical in paintball projectiles.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:27 AM   #45
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Default Re: Ultratech Sleep/Paralysis Agents

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
For injectables you do need an agent that works in small doses but you'll end up with something at least as practical as a taser dart. Even one of those that's self-contained and doesn't trail wires.
Not a problem. We have tranquilizer darts for elephants, after all.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:37 AM   #46
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Ultratech Sleep/Paralysis Agents

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Not a problem. We have tranquilizer darts for elephants, after all.
Not concealable, single shot only and not fast acting either.
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Old 05-14-2014, 04:19 PM   #47
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Default Ultratech Sleep/Paralysis Agents -- Some suspension of disbelief --

Remember, if we're talking about higher tech levels, we're making judgments on knowledge that NO ONE now has. So I'm kinda careful about saying "TL 8+ can't do it because it can't be done now."

For example -- from the little I know (a few articles and some Charlie Rose episodes) scientists are really just beginning to know about how the brain works and where some of its functions are. Let's assume someone discovers there's a combination of areas in the brain that controls consciousness. Let's assume also that -- (have to go, weather alert)
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:51 PM   #48
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Default Re: Ultratech Sleep/Paralysis Agents

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
That doesn't seem any more advanced than the TL7½ stuff Russians used in Nord-Ost.
Which probably wouldn't have been nearly as bad if they hadn't bungled the emergency response.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:58 PM   #49
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Default Re: Ultratech Sleep/Paralysis Agents

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
'Fail HT by 5' == 4.6%. Plus don't forget that in Nord-Ost, at least some of the people were hungry, thirsty, mishandled during the evacuation, and denied medical aid because the military refused to tell the doctors anything about the employed toxin and doctors couldn't figure all the nuances in time.
Yeah, it's really unclear how it would have gone if the EMTs had been given the antidote and briefed on how to treat victims.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:37 AM   #50
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Default Re: Ultratech Sleep/Paralysis Agents

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Not a problem. We have tranquilizer darts for elephants, after all.
How strange, I only have them for dart guns.

It has always struck me as strange that the gas is more effective than the injected drug. Just seemed like separate sources that didn't converge.
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