06-26-2022, 12:03 PM | #11 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama
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Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting
If he is going to use them for Black Ops I would suggest to focus less on plausibility of technology and focus more into the action and aesthetic of the game.
Black Ops use super intelligent cientists/inventors with access to a sprinkle of alien tech and other shenanigans to pull some crazy stunts, in and out of the lab and workshops. So just "upgrade" your favorite weapon with "extra powerful" shots that add +1 per die or add +1d or +2d of damage, while also improving the armor piercing to (2) or (3). Make it loud and flashy for the Combat Ops, or radar absorbent, not detectable in metal detectors for the Intelligence Op. It is important to invent some technical specks, things like " the shots use improved powder or it uses rifle ammo or whatever, but it is just flavor. The characters will need all the help. |
06-26-2022, 12:29 PM | #12 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
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Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting
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Sorry, I just found this "as a Brit" remark to be super funny haha Right there with you brother. Last edited by KarlKost; 06-26-2022 at 12:33 PM. |
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06-26-2022, 12:44 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
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Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting
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As for "piercing vs wounding", the only solution I see is to either make the bullets explosive or to make them turn into shrapnel after contact |
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06-26-2022, 12:54 PM | #14 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting
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Realistically only guided micro-missiles would be at all accurate and they never e as cheap as they are in UT. But yes, just go to UT and you'll find Armor Piercing Explosive projectiles.
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Fred Brackin |
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06-26-2022, 12:58 PM | #15 | |
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting
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When searching for a powerful gun, it might be easier to think in terms of the round you're firing rather than the gun itself. Most guns firing the same round will perform basically the same. Also, handguns in general aren't going to penetrate armor well. The silver lining of all this is that you can safely ignore most handguns in your search - you're really looking for something exceptional, like the Desert Eagle in .50AE firing APDU rounds. Having said that, it's important to know just what kind of body armor this player wants their handcannon to punch through. If they're fighting soldiers with full military body armor with DR 35, the handgun is usually a non-starter. But if werewolves and Predators are things they need to worry about, I'd imagine they aren't fighting uniformed soldiers very often. Looking at High-Tech 4e's TL8 body armor, the fragmentation vest and concealable vests are all LC3, meaning they're pretty easy for people to get their hands on. (The anti-stab vest is LC4, but as its name implies it doesn't work against piercing damage.) The frag vest is DR 5 without trauma plates (which are LC 2 and therefore harder to get), the early concealable vest is DR 8, and the concealable vest is DR 12. To put those numbers in perspective: two common pistol calibers you'll see are 9mm and .45. The 9mm often does 2d+2 pi, while the .45 does 2d pi+. The 9mm will penetrate armor better with higher basic damage, but the .45's large piercing damage has a x1.5 wounding modifier, so it can often do more damage. The average damage rolled for each is 9 damage for the 9mm and 7 damage for the .45. On average, both will go through the frag vest without trauma plates, while the 9mm will do a single point of damage through the early concealable vest. Both are usually stopped by the concealable vest, and in fact the .45's max damage of 12 means it will never get through. The 9mm, when it does get through, will only do a point or two of damage. A lot of pistol calibers will do damage in the same ballpark as the 9mm and .45, meaning that most handguns will be stopped by concealable vests, which can be worn under clothes and cost only $1,000. Meanwhile, the Desert Eagle in .50AE will do 4d pi+ damage. Average damage is 14, meaning it'll punch right through that concealed vest, and like the .45 it does large piercing damage, so anything that gets through DR is multiplied by 1.5. So it'll get the job done. But really, the Deagle is a bit played out - it's heavy, bulky, it kicks like a horse, and it's got a small magazine size. There's a reason only Cold War-era action movie villains use it. And even when real people do use it, it's usually not chambered in .50AE. So what else do we have? The Colt Python revolver is a .357 magnum. Damage is 3d pi, average damage 10.5. It's also easier to control and hide than the Deagle. Pretty good, but could be better. The S&W Model 29 is a revolver chambered in .44 Magnum - 3d+2 pi+. Average damage 12.5, so it'll punch through the concealable vest, and slightly easier to control than the Deagle. Getting better. How about that Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull? 5d-1 pi+ damage... about as much as an assault rifle, with better wounding. Average damage 16.5, with huge piercing damage. It hits like a freight train. It also weighs a pound less than the Deagle... though it does have more recoil. And if you DO have to shoot through DR 35 body armor? You'll need armor piercing ammunition doing around 5d(2) damage, which gives an average penetration of 35, meaning a 50/50 chance of getting through. This is hard to do with a handgun, but not impossible. Of the three basic AP types (AP, APHC, and APDU), I think only APDU is really going to give you the raw damage output to get through armor. On a .50AE Desert Eagle, it turns 4d(2) pi+ into 5d-1(2) pi. Average 33 penetration... It'll work, but we can do better. The .454 Casull revolver will do something like 6d-1(2) pi, which will average two points of damage through DR 35. The damage may not sound like much, but actually punching through military body armor with a revolver is a feat in and of itself. The problem, of course, is that APDU ammunition is LC1, meaning there's a good chance it's totally unavailable to the player. AP and APHC are both LC2, with APHC being more expensive. I'd imagine that this is going to be the real limiting factor. So, to summarize: If they need a handgun that will get through common civilian body armors, they have a few options. Something in .357 will usually get the job done, but might struggle against the best armor. If they need a little more oomph, a .44 magnum will do the job reliably. A Desert Eagle in .50AE will do it better, but only slightly, and it's a big hunk of metal with a lot of downsides. And if they absolutely, positively need to get through military body armor with a handgun, the best option is something ridiculous like .454 Casull firing APDU rounds. Desert Eagle firing .50AE APDU is the second best option, but will struggle. If LC1 APDU ammo isn't available, .454 Casull firing LC2 APHC ammo is as good as the Deagle. If restricted to LC3, the best one-handed weapon for getting through military body armor is either a knife to the throat, or a cell phone speed-dialing an IED. Last edited by FrackingBiscuit; 06-26-2022 at 01:02 PM. |
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06-26-2022, 02:00 PM | #16 | |
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
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Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting
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06-26-2022, 02:53 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: Dec 2020
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Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting
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Also a hunting license allows for the transport of this toys without much questions. Including ammo and guns, a back up handgun included. So your "only" problem is to get for civillians illegal as hell ammo. |
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06-26-2022, 03:02 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Not in your time zone:D
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Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting
Hmm, Gyroc rounds could be fun. If we imagine them using HEAT warheads, maybe 6d(5) Imp Inc, linked 1d-2 Cr Ex?
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"Sanity is a bourgeois meme." Exegeek PS sorry I'm a Parthian shootist: shiftwork + out of country = not here when you are:/ It's all in the reflexes |
06-26-2022, 03:07 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting
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And as far as monster hunting goes, I know .357 and .44 magnum are often discussed for defense against moose and bears, so I figure they'd be standard fare for monster hunters. .454 Casull is also brought up alongside other real big cartridges, but I would imagine they're less popular. Still, I would assume guns regularly used to hunt/protect against wild life will be readily available to monster hunters. If actually trapped in the UK, apparently it's possible to get pump-action/semi-auto shotguns and bolt-action rifles, but they seem to have limits on magazine capacity, like no more than 2+1 for a shotgun. So it's possible to get a big-bore longarm of some kind if you get all the dots to line up. But yeah, the UK doesn't exactly seem like a good place for professional monster hunters to be. |
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06-26-2022, 03:17 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting
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"Black Ops" suggests the PCs are part of a military force. So, the setting could well stipulate that the PTB know all about the occult baddies, and the SAS has an extra-secret unit of PCs devoted to hunting them down. In this setting, it's perfectly legal for the PCs to have weapons as part of their job. |
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guns, tech level |
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