Bad Footing page refs

[whswhs]

I was checking something in GURPS Martial Arts, and I spotted the Naval Training perk letting you avoid the penalties to attack and defense for bad footing. But where are those penalties defined? I've checked the indexes of the Basic Set and Martial Arts, and I can't find them listed; and a quick scan through the movement and combat parts of the second volume doesn't turn them up. Does anyone have a page reference?

How does bad footing interact with Perfect Balance? Or does it?

On a related note, I have a vague memory of there being rules for lumberjack-style log rolling contests in 3/e. Does anyone remember them more specifically? I've probably got the book, but I've got a LOT of 3/e books. . . .

Bill Stoddard

[jspade]

I don't have the page number handy, but I know they (along with the elusive penalty for carrying a large shield) are in the summary of modifiers in the back of Campaigns.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I was checking something in GURPS Martial Arts, and I spotted the Naval Training perk letting you avoid the penalties to attack and defense for bad footing. But where are those penalties defined?

B.547 but "defined" is an exaggeration. It's "-2 for Bad footing or worse at GM's option."

There are a lot of things hidden around there. That's the only place that lists the Attack Penalty for having a Heavy Shield (which necessitates the Shield Wall Perk).

Fred Brackin

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

B.547 but "defined" is an exaggeration. It's "-2 for Bad footing or worse at GM's option."

There are a lot of things hidden around there. That's the only place that lists the Attack Penalty for having a Heavy Shield (which necessitates the Shield Wall Perk).

Thanks, Fred. Your reliability is once more confirmed. And I see the defense modifier is to be found two pages later.

It doesn't seem to address Perfect Balance very clearly, though. The +6 to keep your feet or +4 DX seems way too big to apply to those bad footing mods, even if you halve it for defense. You don't actually "roll to keep your feet" when fighting on a ship's heaving deck, do you? Does it just have no effect? Or does it cancel bad footing penalties in combat? Any page references for that, or any thoughts about what would make sense?

Bill

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by whswhs

You don't actually "roll to keep your feet" when fighting on a ship's heaving deck, do you? Does it just have no effect? Or does it cancel bad footing penalties in combat? Any page references for that, or any thoughts about what would make sense?

Off-hand "rolls to keep your feet" in Basic seem limited to Takedowns after being Grappled or after being hit with a Slam.

There doesn't even seem to be any effect on allowing you to hop on one leg when the other one is Crippled.

I suspect there is very little specific game effect beyond any the GM chooses. I believe the text in question goes back unaltered (except for changing cost from 25 to 15) to a very early book such as the 1st ed of Aliens or Fantasy Folk when Gurps was a very loose game.

Fred Brackin

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by whswhs

You don't actually "roll to keep your feet" when fighting on a ship's heaving deck, do you?

Define "Heaving". I've been on a sailboat that heaved a good 30 degrees from level one way, and then the other, and had a wet deck to boot. I was on a safty tether anchored to the mast, and clinging to a bench. Frankly, I think I was making rolls just to stay *seated*.

I wouldn't make someone roll to stay upright on a more modestly rocking deck, but fighting on a wet rolling deck has got to be good for penalties, and the more it's moving (and the colder/icier it is) the bigger the combat penalties and eventually you'll have to start rolling to stay upright.

I'd apply the penalties to combat to the Kicking roll to avoid falling flat on your face after missing a kick, by the by. It's harder to keep your balance when you're not on a stable surface.

Or does it cancel bad footing penalties in combat?

I'd let the +4 DX count against the general combat penalties caused by a pitching deck (not creating a bonus, but counteracting penalties), and the +6 would definitely count once a ship started pitching about enough to require rolls to stay afoot.

Is there anything in Swashbucklers about fighting shipboard?

I note that basic set page 469 references the Ranged Attack Modifiers table when discussing shooting and aiming from a bobbing ship.

[Not another shrubbery]

You might take some guidelines relating to footing from Magic: Earthquake (p54) and Grease (pp142-143) give penalties to DX and combat related rolls that might be a foundation for judging other situational modifiers.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I'd let the +4 DX count against the general combat penalties caused by a pitching deck (not creating a bonus, but counteracting penalties), and the +6 would definitely count once a ship started pitching about enough to require rolls to stay afoot.

Is there anything in Swashbucklers about fighting shipboard?

Only that you *can* apply the -2 mod.

Okay, here's what I've been able to find. First, there's bad footing situations in combat; fighting on a ship's deck is an example. The basic penalty is -2 attack/-1 defense. Presumably you don't have to roll to stay on your feet, unless you blow a maneuver badly somehow or get knocked down.

Second, there are surfaces that are "wet, slippery, or unstable": that could be a ship's deck with heavy rainfall, or soaked in blood, or when the ship is heeling way over. A person with Perfect Balance rolls at +6 to keep their feet (presumably this is a DX roll). So probably a normal person rolls DX with no modifier. There's no mention of modifiers to combat skills, but you can figure there ought to be, because this sounds like a worse situation than just fighting on a ship's deck.

A simple way would be to have two levels. The ship under adverse weather requires a DX roll to keep your feet, and gives -4 to attack and -2 to defense; Perfect Balance gives +6 to the DX roll, +4 to attack, and +2 to defense, so you can still fight normally. If the weather's okay, you have no DX roll required, and -2 to attack and -1 to defense; Perfect Balance eliminates the combat penalties.

Or we could have three levels. The "adverse weather" would be for moderately bad weather—the ship is heeling over, the deck is wet, whatever. There would be a worse level that gave -6/-3, or -2/-1 with Perfect Balance. It would also require a DX-6 roll to keep your feet, or DX with Perfect Balance. And since the DX roll for Perfect Balance is to keep your feet while walking, you could go further and say that it requires a DX roll just to stand still, or a DX+6 roll with Perfect Balance.

Either of those sound reasonable?

Bill Stoddard

[Puppetminion]

Originally Posted by whswhs

On a related note, I have a vague memory of there being rules for lumberjack-style log rolling contests in 3/e. Does anyone remember them more specifically? I've probably got the book, but I've got a LOT of 3/e books. .

I think they were an example for Regular Contests in the 3e Basic Set, but all my 3ed books are far far away at present.

[Kromm]

"Bad footing" means uneven or slippery ground, and gives -2 to attack/-1 to defend, per pp. B547-549. It also gives a movement penalty, per p. B387. The general countermeasure against all of these effects is Terrain Adaptation. The specific countermeasure against just the combat penalties is Sure-Footed.

"Rolls to keep your feet" refers to knockback (p. B378) and any GM-specified roll to avoid falling over. The countermeasure against that is Perfect Balance.

The two do not overlap. The first is about being bogged down in muck or snow or sand, or being unable to accelerate or decelerate efficiently on ice or loose rock; it's all about how you make contact with the surface. The second is about falling down because your center of gravity isn't where it should be; it's all about how you carry your weight.