03-11-2021, 01:04 PM | #11 |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
Do you have a list of differences between the rules for GURPS and the DFRPG in regards to grappling somewhere? They're very similar, but it's when things are very similar that I start overlooking differences, because I assumed I knew how things work.
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03-11-2021, 01:41 PM | #12 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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It'd be an interesting examination, but not one I have time for at the moment!
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03-11-2021, 01:44 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
I think I missed the fact that you don't have to spend CP for strangling unlike "Injure the Foe". That does make strangling significantly better, and the ability to do so without getting hold of the neck (-5 to target) is actually worth something.
Probably enemies with carapace or solid armor would reduce this damage though, so it compares unfavorably to the neck for armored opponents. Anyway, how does grappling with the torso work with stuff like "Number of Limbs"? If a snake-person grapples with both arms and tail, is that 3 limbs? If I wanted a snake tail to count for more would I buy that as some sort of limited version of Extra Arm? How about leg grapples? Let's say we have a giant spider that wants to pin an opponent. It has 8 legs and a mouth, but no fine manipulators/arms.
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03-12-2021, 06:39 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
Btw. when using the optional "Knowing Your Own Strength", what thresholds would you suggest for Lifting ST when using Grab and Go etc.? KYOS-Lifting ST scales up dramatically faster, so a straight multiple seems overkill. Each 10x ST multiplies Lift by 10 after all...
+3 ST is already 100% increase in lifting ST. I guess the easy, if a bit 'game-y', solution is to just double the relative levels of ST for everything (since KYOS Lifting ST costs 7/level under KYOS instead of 3/level). Though if so I still feel like something like Grab & Go would be better based on basic lift. Maybe instead of doing percentages we could just say +3 ST (rounded to +4 if doubling relative levels...) lets you make a full move. -2 ST means you can only take a step.
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03-12-2021, 09:42 AM | #15 | ||||
MIB
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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03-12-2021, 07:55 PM | #16 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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but I guess MA116 offset that by giving it some new boosts like unpenalized hands-free grappling techniques using torso, which Basic Set didn't exactly say... though MA did also require Double-Jointed for that, which boosts DJ and CA both in a way. |
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03-15-2021, 01:19 PM | #17 | |||
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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I'm tempted to do something similar for an arachne/drider-like character, letting them buy a technique to use legs for grappling/assisting with grappling. Perhaps a Technique defaulting to <unarmed skill>-3 or something. Technical Grappling had rules for leg-grappling, but Fantastic Dungeon Grappling is lacking something like that. I'd really like to see a bit of a comfortable in-between of the over-complicated Technical Grappling, and the rather bare-bones Dungeon Grappling. Quote:
I'm currently trying to decide between using Striking-ST for grappling instead (I already price it at 2/points level instead of 1/point level), or counting Lifting ST as `Lifting-ST*2 - 10`. Both have pros and cons. Striking ST is simple, and makes the scaling less weird. It also makes it easier to make a KYOS Lifting-ST 25 creature wrestle believably by simply giving it a lot more Striking-ST than Lifting-ST. Could probably do Striking-ST (Wrestling only, -30%) or something too. Lifting-ST keeps the idea of wrestling being more based around your "slow" strength though, while using Striking-ST essentially creatings 'Lifting-ST', 'Striking-ST', and 'Wrestling-ST' :\ Quote:
I don't mind Cinematic Martial artists (or Infinite's vampire who has super-strength) one-hand choking out someone, but they should probably pay for some sort of technique. Or at least require something like the Trained by Master advantage. As it is there isn't really a reason to pick up stuff like the Constriction Attack. I mean, compared to just getting 4 levels of Wrestling it is a really really weak pick.
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03-15-2021, 01:27 PM | #18 |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
My instinct on the "what to do with Constriction Attack" question is to have it allow you to grapple with your body as well as a normal person could with two hands (albeit possibly with only a limited subset of targets and techniques), so a snake with it can wrap and strangle while having No Fine Manipulators, and a lamia with it can wrap and strangle while either keeping arms free for other work or grappling with them as well for the "extra arms" bonus.
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03-15-2021, 04:06 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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03-15-2021, 05:29 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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TG27 at least gave some helpful text regarding what Constriction's meant to represent: "a core physiology and musculature optimized for exerting strength laterally" There's also that new discount on it for those who have Extra Flexible on two arms. No mention of Legs, I guess because B55 doesn't include an EF option for Extra Legs... There's no mention of Double-Jointed here either, even though DJ seems to be on par with Flexible in terms of arm benefits in the only "crunch" I'm aware of for EF: B390's side-parrying and B391's back-blocking. I think even with TG's new perk there's a big question why you'd ever take Extra-Flexible as a 2-armed being, if you think about it... 1) it costs 5 per arm: that's 10 points for 2, may as well go the full 15 for DJ and avoid -5 in close quarters, get a +5 talent for Break Free attacks, climbing, escape and seduction I guess you could consider the effective total cost to be only 5 points subtracting the 5 you save on Constriction Attack. It seems a bit complicated though. Like would I still save the full 5 points on Constriction Attack if I took Extra Arms with limitations? Consider: Flexible Arms (Immediate Preparation Required: 1 minute -30% Maximum Duration: 10 minutes -50%) [2] By spending 2 points to save 5, I'm basically getting 3 free points, lowering the cost of Constriction Attack to merely 7 points instead of 10. I think the only way to prevent that kind of abuse would be to require Constriction Attack to take whatever limitations you took on Flexible Arms, that way you're not getting full benefit of the discount by paying fewer points to get the discount. Plus the -5 should probably come off the base cost of 10 rather than any modified costs, so that Constriction Attack doesn't become free if you have -50% in limitations. |
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Tags |
armed grappling, dungeon grappling, fantastic grappling, martial arts, technical grappling |
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