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Old 07-09-2009, 05:31 PM   #71
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: Guns after the fall of civerlisation

If the economics are cutting the wrong way, though, you'll do very well against the poor jerks with springfields right up until you run out of cartridges. How hard is it to make the brass? (In that matchup, both parties are going to need primers, as the springfield is a percussion cap weapon.)

And I imagine some sort of bolt-action or similar design would be more efficient than using an assault rifle that won't cycle.


I think the vagueness of 'fall of civerlisation' and 'post-apocalypse' are rather an impediment to talking about conditions. Some people seem to be assuming the largest groups around will be the size of a medieval village, for some reason fighting one another. I don't think there's much that won't leave your centers of power in at least the tens of thousands within a generation, and very few possibilities that really demolish the infrastructure.

So when you're saying 'the world will be like this', please also say where you're coming from. Crosstalk between wildly different scenarios and assumed post-disaster structures is a case of apples, oranges, and turnips. Which is fine, so long as you can tell which is which.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:47 PM   #72
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Default Re: Guns after the fall of civerlisation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed the Coastie View Post
And yes, it and others will indeed "work with dirty old black powder". They will not work very well, however, and will only do so in a single-shot mode; the amount of black powder that you would be able to put into the round's casing is insufficient to do more than propel the bullet; it lacks the energy necessary to cycle the action. Plus it will really foul your barrel in less time than you think.
Changing the recoil spring for an appropriate (weaker) replacement would probably take care of the first problem.

The only solution to the fouling problem is to scrub out the barrel with a cleaning rod. I don't know if that would be every 4-5 rounds, every magazine, or what. With training, it can probably be done in a few seconds. You probably carry a rod with a brush tip strapped to the side of your weapon.

It occurs to me that you probably want to avoid the gas-operated rifles (like most assault rifles) alltogether, since the gas system fouling would be MUCH harder to clean in the field than just barrel fouling. (We do keep coming back to the Sten, don't we? The perfect post-poccy weapon?)
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:25 PM   #73
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Default Re: Guns after the fall of civerlisation

I've never considered it before, but I'll bet that my .223 single-shot carbine would probably work just fine using black powder propellant. For that matter, that Sten that I built in metalshop way-back-when could probably be likewise adapted by someone with sufficient gunsmithing skill.

I'm not about to experiment myself, though...I like all of my fingers and other body parts right where they are.
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:11 PM   #74
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Default Re: Guns after the fall of civerlisation

Brass is the only thing that is hard to make with out the equipment for it. It would be possible to use copper or brass tubing but it would tack a lot of time to make bottoms. It is one of the things that the bigger it is the easer it is so .80 of a .50 cal base would be easer then the .373 of a .223. by the same token a 5” 51 would be easer then the .50. Back in the days of percussion caps they made hand cranked cap makers it made brass cups then they still had to be filled. It would be possible to make one for modern primers. So just the casings are left and that’s not as easy. Bottle necking is simple but that deep stamping of brass is difficult to do any other way.

An A.K. can fire 60 rounds of black powder with out trouble an AR 15 4 rounds. The SDV has a lever for dirty gun it will give it an additional 10 rounds with black powder so it is good for 30. If you are making low sulfur powder then about 5 times the ammo or more can be shot.
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:53 AM   #75
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Default Re: Guns after the fall of civerlisation

From the 1632 slush pile a description of firearms with madern knowledge and low tech.

http://www.1632.org/1632Slush/GunSel...tteeReport.rtf

j.
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:13 PM   #76
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Default Re: Guns after the fall of civerlisation

I have designed a rim fire multi barrel sub machine guns gun that uses clock work like mechanisms. 12 barrel .45 long colt or a 20 barrel .32 S&W. There based on the volley gun. I think it could work maybe even with a changeable barrel set but it would way a lot having so many barrels. But with no moving parts on the powder side it would fire black powder with out problems like revolvers.
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