[DF] Swashbucklers... but with whips!

[Tymathee]

Originally Posted by edk926

Zorro uses whips, and he very much fits the swashbuckler mold, so we have a ready example of what the character may look like in combat. Whip-cracking is used in the real world for herding livestock. There's also cracking competitions. As far as scaring people, I suppose it could be intimidating enough warrant a bonus to Intimidation rolls. I'm not sure how parrying would work with a whip, but you can, at least cinematically, use the whip to pull weapons right out of a foe's hand. This is a good concept, although you might want a few points in a secondary weapon.

I recall watching Antonio Banderas' Zorro with fondness. Another classic example of a whip user would be DC's Catwoman. Indiana Jones does some cool stuff with his whip. There's also the members of the Belmont Clan from the Castlevania video game series. I've sprinkled in a fair amount of pop culture inspiration in Adeline's concept. She's just as much as a tribute to what she's derived from as she is a original character.

The Campaigns book outlines the special gimmicks of the whip; improved skill at disarming foes and entangling them. At some point she'll want to buy up ST for those Quick Contests to ensnare foes better. She should also make good use of targeted attacks to the hand to force foes to either win a Will check or drop their weapon. Other characters should be quick to realize that they should capitalize on her ability to hinder or even incapacitate foes to their advantage. Choke them, bring them to their knees... with enough improvement she'll be pretty useful in combat.

With improved damage and more accessible attacks and parrying, it makes it more appealing to go all in with the whip (at the metagame level, for better or for worse GURPS rewards you for committing to a single weapon; it is forgivable here as it is her entire schtick). It somewhat even warrants going without a legitimate long ranged option... almost. Up to Reach 4 is fantastic for a melee weapon at least. That Shatterproof enchantment comes in handy here, giving it indestructability (and the GM ought to adhere to the spirit of Signature Gear). It won't get cut to pieces any time soon, at least until the magic fails (unlike the other qualities of the gear this ought to unquestionably remain susceptible to no-mana zones and anti-enchantment magic). So parrying becomes a legitimate option.

Fiend Slayer can be a deadly weapon, you just have to play to the strengths of the whip's gimmicks and be mindful of what character advancement options to take to ensure Adeline's one-trick pony schtick continues to stay relevant for the dungeon crawling experience. Cinematically, whips have a great deal of utility for the Swashbuckler in the DF's class profession template sense. If I were the GM, I'd permit use of the whip to grab onto convenient points to swing from (utilizing the rules outlined in DF's Dungeons book); Adeline might want to invest into levels of Serendipity to have those at-will. It could cleverly be used to snatch items from afar... in some sense, it doubles as a (better?) ten-foot pole which makes that Shatterproof enchantment such a future-proofing investment. Whatever cinematic cool whip tricks the GM finds plausible for DF's cinematic faux-realism should likely be allowed (Varyon even gave some stellar examples of clever whip implementation!).

Couldn't hurt to invest one or two points in Knife. Ideally they don't even get close enough for that to come into play though. She'll have the initiative won often enough if the GM wants those points in Blinding Strike to matter, so she'll crack that whip at you from four yards away and hopefully have you disarmed and defenseless for another swift comrade to come swinging in with a big axe!

[thrash]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

It's a little munchkinny, but this is for DF, so I will suggest: Technique Mastery (Crack) with Crack maxed out to Whip+4.

Also consider the Entangle technique, although her Whip skill is high enough she may not need to specialize.

Since she is carrying a length of leather rope around, you might consider adding the Garrote skill for close combat.

[Tymathee]

Originally Posted by thrash

Also consider the Entangle technique, although her Whip skill is high enough she may not need to specialize.

Since she is carrying a length of leather rope around, you might consider adding the Garrote skill for close combat.

Since this character is made outside the context of any specific campaign (I keep a archive of pre-generated characters for DF, to expedite the process of starting play as a PC or to possibly use as cool NPCs in my own campaigns), I, as a player at least, would advise the GM to disallow point investment in Techniques. Part of the issue of the high skill character problem is that allowing point investment in Techniques only greatly worsens the issue. As a compromise, it'd be best to still let them attempt Techniques at the full penalty. Cinematic Techniques should unquestionably require the full point investment to even use.

However, if the GM is A-OK with putting points in Techniques there's no reason why that couldn't be something available as an option for character advancement as she gets rewarded Character Points in play. I dislike entirely front-loading characters with as much min-max'ing at the beginning of the campaign as possible. I know DF's 250 points characters are supposed to be "accomplished adventurers", but it is more vital from a meta-balance stand point to leave some room for real improvement. Suits the concept of the character too; She's supposed to be a young woman who's aspiring to become as renowned as her heroic ancestors.

I think it might be good to address the weight issue in the context of DF's flavor of realism. Barbarians, as DF understands them, have mass disproportionate to their HP (there's a unspoken +0% "Massless" modifier being applied to that bought up HP). Rather than looking like massive mountains of muscle, they look more like Arnold's Conan, small but strong (at least for SM +1). It wouldn't be out of place to apply similar logic to other things as well, such as whips. This makes for a convenient excuse for GURPS's odd weapon stats. Just like how Barbarians are more hardy than what their mass would permit, the whip is somehow heavier than it looks.

Garrote could be useful, and I do think she should have one or two points invested in a close combat option (Knife would be good, but it would mean getting something besides the small belt knife[which is inappropriate for combat use] for it). I'm going to try to look and see where I can squeeze those in.

[Tymathee]

Originally Posted by Antiquation!

Looks very nice. As an aside, the "diabolical whips" from Fantasy Tech 2 may be of interest to you; they eschew most of the traditional disadvantages whips have when being used as weapons.

Looked at it and it's brilliant, I wish this was on my radar sooner. Scratch that fluff and insert Fiend Slayer's fluff, and just have it not detect as Evil (that would be a 0 point Feature on a character anyways so removing that is a nonissue), and slap on that Shatterproof enchantment. As Signature Gear, that would save 5 points for a Reach 1-4 whip, with far more functionality to boot. Talk about a point crock!

However, this means I'll need to shuffle points for ST 13 so she can wield it. I'll see what I can do about that... which means I'll be needing to write up a second draft of the character sheet. :)

[Tymathee]

Part 1

Adeline Beauchêne

250 Points

Attributes: ST 13 [30]; DX 15 [100]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 13 [30].

Secondary Characteristics:
Damage 1d/2d-1
BL 34 lbs.
HP 13 [0]
Will 10 [0]
Per 10 [0]
FP 13 [0]
Basic Speed 7.00 [0]
Basic Move 7 [0]

Advantages:
Appearance (Beautiful) [12]
Sharp-Dressed 2 [2]
Combat Reflexes [15]
Extra Option (Sexy Clothing compatible w/ Sharp-Dressed) [1]
Luck [15]
Rules Exemption (Combat Perky!) [1]
Signature Gear (Fiend Slayer) [20]
Weapon Bond (Fiend Slayer) [1]
Weapon Master (Whip) [20]

Disadvantages:
Chummy [-5]
Code of Honor (Highwaywoman’s) [-5]
Compulsive Carousing (12) [-5]
Impulsiveness (12) [-10]
Overconfidence (12) [-5]
Selfish (12) [-5]
Sense of Duty (Adventuring companions) [-5]
Short Attention Span (12) [-10]

Quirks:
Broad-Minded [-1]
Determined [-1]
Forgetful [-1]
Inquisitive [-1]
Insensitive [-1]

Skills:
Acrobatics-15 [4]
Brawling-16 [2]
Carousing-13 [1]
Climbing-14 [1]
Fast-Draw (Flexible)-16 [1]
Fast-Talk-10 [2]
First Aid-10 [1]
Gesture-10 [1]
Hiking-12 [1]
Intimidation-10 [2]
Jumping-15 [1]
Search-10 [2]
Sex Appeal-18 [1]
Stealth-15 [2]
Streetwise-10 [2]
Whip-24 [32]
Wrestling-15 [2]

Skill levels as written represent effective Skill levels with all modifiers from traits and equipment.

Equipment:
• Fiend Slayer [Belt] Dmg sw+2 cr; Reach 1-4; Parry 0; $10,000; 8 lbs.; Enchanted w/ Shatterproof. ***
• Blanket [Torso] $20, 4 lbs.
• Bandages [Haversack] $10, 1 lb.
• Elven Rations (1 week) [Haversack] $105, 3.5 lbs.
• Haversack [Shoulder, Left] Holds 10 lbs. $30, 1 lb.
• Personal Basics [Haversack] $5, 1 lb.
• Rope, 3/8” (10 yards) [Torso] $5, 1.5 lbs.
• Sexy Clothing [Torso] +2 to Sex Appeal. $460, 1 lb.
• Small Belt Knife [Belt] $15, 0.25 lb.
• Light Thigh-High Boots of Solidity [Legs] DR 3* for feet and legs. $290, 5.25 lbs.
• Whetstone [Haversack] $5, 1 lb.
• Wineskin [Over Shoulder] $10, 0.25 lb. (8.25 lbs. full of water)
• Money [Haversack] $45; Silver, 10 coins. Copper, 5 coins.

*** See Fantasy-Tech 2 for Diabolical Whip stats; Fiend Slayer does not detect as Evil (or Good).

[Tymathee]

Part 2

Designer’s Notes

Here is the second draft! This build has shifted to using a new variation of her signature weapon the Fiend Slayer.

Here’s the patch notes:

• From switching to the new variant of Fiend Slayer, we’ve shaved off 5 points from it as Signature Gear. Functionally, the most major improvements are: 1) that it simply never becomes Unready, removing the need for the built in Extra Ready levels altogether, 2) as well as there being no need to take Ready maneuvers to alter the Reach. This all means it now can effectively make Rapid Strikes and multiple parries that it couldn’t perform before. Nice!
• With Fiend Slayer’s improved parrying ability, Enhanced Parry (Whip) is somewhat redundant. We can afford to shave this off for another 5 points to spend.
• Rapier Wit, along with the nifty Public Speaking (Repartee), have been cut for 9 more points. As written in the RAW it is busted stun-locking, and the intent behind the Optional Specialty was to incorporate a tiny bit more game balance to the package. Oh well!
• A single level of Blinding Strike was cut for the last point needed. “Initiative 8” is still pretty good though.

This gives us the extra 20 points to buy up her ST to 13 for her to wield the updated Fiend Slayer. She’ll also fair better in the Quick Contests for entanglement, and better swinging damage certainly helps make those whiplashes plenty more painful for steeper Shock Penalties on their Will save to force them to drop weapons.

Naturally, it doesn’t have the fluff text as described in Fantasy-Tech 2, but instead the fluff as previously described in this thread for Fiend Slayer. It does not detect as Evil, but it certainly does not detect as Good either. Despite the ultimately wholesome intentions for its intended purpose, the line of women who wielded the whip never had the purest of hearts… corruption intermingling with the righteous power within its craftsmanship has left the weapon sterile from being truly Evil or Good. A cool anti-heroic weapon for a cool anti-heroine!

EDIT 6/21/2021: I've made the additional change of swapping out that last level of Blinding Strike to raise Brawling to 16.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by edk926

I'm not sure how parrying would work with a whip...

You don't Parry with the whippy part, you Parry with the handle. Part of me wonders if one could effectively install a hilt on a whip's handle...

[JulianLW]

Going from Brawling-15 [1] to Brawling-16 [2] would arguably be the best point this character ever spent.

[Tymathee]

Originally Posted by Varyon

You don't Parry with the whippy part, you Parry with the handle. Part of me wonders if one could effectively install a hilt on a whip's handle...

I'm not sure if GURPS cares to distinguish between the effectiveness between parrying with the whippy part and the handle; presumably, the -2 on the parry was to simulate the difficulty of parrying with said whippy part, but no part of the weapon's text suggests that. *shrug*

The now not-Diabolical Whip Fiend Slayer still has 8 lbs. of weight (although with now with increased required minimum ST of 13), so I could at least imagine it swatting aside comparatively heavy weapons.

[Tymathee]

Originally Posted by JulianLW

Going from Brawling-15 [1] to Brawling-16 [2] would arguably be the best point this character ever spent.

The lack of transparency in your reply leaves something to be desired. Care to elaborate?

That's still shy of the damage bonus for DX+2... so I'm guessing this is for accuracy of a punch or kick/soaking penalties/soaking penalties for attempting Techniques.

I am aware she probably ought to have better close combat options... squeezing an extra point into Brawling certainly could also be considered, besides Knife and Garrote. I just haven't made up my mind yet as to what points need to be redistributed for them. Of course, if we're going with "oughts", she ought to have a real ranged option too. A small crossbow would be flavorful.

If you're speaking to the impracticality of the character, that's heavily baked into the concept of her. I'm very blatantly mocking the silliness of old dungeon crawling and fantasy tropes, but the catch is that we're taking the tropes and making them (at least mostly more) practical. My personal taste in DF is to make fun of the absurdity that makes others shy away from the genre. I thought this was made quite clear in my use of humor, but maybe I too could stand to be a little more transparent.