Time to Cast a Spell Question and comabt

[mr beer]

Originally Posted by Lameth

Yes thank you but my issue is this, a Turn is a second of time. Therefore in TURN 1, if the Mage concentrates it will take the FULL Turn to concentrate right? Well sandwiched in that second is everyone else that has their attacks. Therefore while he is concentrating, other peoples actions are happening all around him. He in concentrating, the orcs are charging, an orc is readying an arrow, the mages partner is rushing the orcs, and so on. So while the Mage in concentrating on that 1 turn spell, he may have an orc swinging a sword at him because that orc was right after his initiative, right?

In real life? Possibly.

In game, no because that's not how GURPS works. The mage can Concentrate in his Turn and cast his spell and the Orc cannot attack him to interrupt unless he took the Wait manoeuvre on his previous Turn.

[Lameth]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

That is just because the mage has a ranged attack. An orc with a crossbow can shoot him on its first turn too.

but in this example, when that orc does fire his crossbow that mage is now protected by his Armor spell, correct?

[Lameth]

How about something like "Fast Draw: [Missile Spell Name]"? Basically a mage can concentrate and throw the spell the same round instead of every other round? So as a Fighter is able to fast draw knife and throw it on the same turn, that mage can do the same with fireball. Maybe at a negative to the spell or -4, or more energy, or maybe a max on damage or something, like a Wild Swing with magic? Thoughts?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Lameth

Why? Everyone saw each other, and they all rolled initiative. Why would the orcs be stunned in this example?

Because that is what happens when you are partially surprised in GURPS.

Originally Posted by Lameth

but in this example, when that orc does fire his crossbow that mage is now protected by his Armor spell, correct?

Sure, but that is the benefit of going earlier in the sequence (and therefore of high Basic Speed).

[Gnomasz]

Originally Posted by Lameth

I see some variant rules for this, like Far Casting and other things, does anyone else do anything different? Basically I don't mind making in not -1 per hex, but I do not want a mage casting a sleep spell a mile away.

Not really different, I'd just allow an advantage that works like Far Casting but for all spells, probably at around 5 point per level.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by Lameth

Ok I guess get it, my flaw is this: That would allow the Mage who has initiative to remove a foe off the battle field, even before anyone else attacks, but I guess that makes sense. I see my combats more cinematic I think, with the Mage casting the Spell as the fighter rushes forward to slice the orc, as the Cleric invokes her prayer, and the Orc draws his sword and rushes the fighter, all on the first turn. Then at the end of that 1 second turn, the Mage's spell goes off, the Fighter get to his target the orc, the clerics prayer is answered, and the orc is now in melee with the fighter, meeting him half way with his sword also drawn.

I just want to make sure I'm on your page here - when you say "initiative" do you mean "first in turn order"? I'm away from my books so I can't give a quote, but initiative means something very specific in GURPS.

Also - it's not just mages that have the option of removing a foe from the battlefield before anyone else attacks. Whoever goes first has that chance.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Lameth

How about something like "Fast Draw: [Missile Spell Name]"? Basically a mage can concentrate and throw the spell the same round instead of every other round? So as a Fighter is able to fast draw knife and throw it on the same turn, that mage can do the same with fireball. Maybe at a negative to the spell or -4, or more energy, or maybe a max on damage or something, like a Wild Swing with magic? Thoughts?

I'd be cautious about this. Fast Draw and throw with a knife isn't a terribly powerful attack, and has pretty limited range. A Fireball spell, even one cast in just one turn (instantly with this Instant Spell skill) can do up to 3d-4d burning damage with standard magic rules and reaches further than a thrown knife (and Lightning Bolt and Ice Knife are generally even more dangerous).

Missile spells are often considered weak, but I don't think making them faster like this is the solution. Making 2-3 point ones more affordable while keeping really big missiles expensive is probably more useful.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by talonthehand

initiative means something very specific in GURPS

To be precise, it's the roll that determines who actually gets surprised in a case of partial surprise (B393).

Thanks to Other Games, many people (including here on the forum) use that word to mean the order in which everyone acts. Official GURPS jargon for that concept is the "turn sequence" (B363).

In theory, everything during a GURPS turn is happening at the same time, as the OP describes. But events have to be resolved in some order. That orc might well be swinging a sword at the mage as he casts. But luckily for Speedy McCast, his investment in Basic Speed pays off when he just manages to finish that Armor spell a fraction of a second before the sword blade bites, so the Armor is up when it's needed. The first second finishes only after everyone takes their turn; it's not one second per character, sequentially, even though that's generally how people declare and resolve actions on the tactical map. (This is also the rationale for rules like run-around attacks or infinite Dodges during one turn. You're not actually unresponsive to that attacker you can see running around to your left, even though it's not your turn to act, nor are you focusing on just one attack in order and moving only to counter just that.)

[Harald387]

Originally Posted by Rupert

I'd be cautious about this. Fast Draw and throw with a knife isn't a terribly powerful attack, and has pretty limited range. A Fireball spell, even one cast in just one turn (instantly with this Instant Spell skill) can do up to 3d-4d burning damage with standard magic rules and reaches further than a thrown knife (and Lightning Bolt and Ice Knife are generally even more dangerous).

Missile spells are often considered weak, but I don't think making them faster like this is the solution. Making 2-3 point ones more affordable while keeping really big missiles expensive is probably more useful.

I can say from experience that allowing 'cast and blast' with Missile spells doesn't unbalance anything, at least not in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy: while comparing it to a fighter throwing a knife means the knife-thrower loses out, the more accurate comparison is the Scout, who fast-draws two arrows a turn from his Cornucopia Quivers and fires them both for anywhere from 1d+6 to 2d+4 damage each with (usually) much higher skill and better range, no FP cost, and multiple damage options (cutting arrows, bodkins, etc).

Beside that, giving the mage the ability to spend a bunch of FP for a missile spell that he can cast and throw in a single turn is definitely balanced.

[Lameth]

Originally Posted by Harald387

I can say from experience that allowing 'cast and blast' with Missile spells doesn't unbalance anything, at least not in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy: while comparing it to a fighter throwing a knife means the knife-thrower loses out, the more accurate comparison is the Scout, who fast-draws two arrows a turn from his Cornucopia Quivers and fires them both for anywhere from 1d+6 to 2d+4 damage each with (usually) much higher skill and better range, no FP cost, and multiple damage options (cutting arrows, bodkins, etc).

Beside that, giving the mage the ability to spend a bunch of FP for a missile spell that he can cast and throw in a single turn is definitely balanced.

Ok your thoughts on the cost equation maybe? Maybe something like a +2 FP as they do in the Psi Book for using a Technique? Therefore something like "[I]by a -4 to skill, and an additional +2FP, the casting is able to do an All Out Concentration on Missile Spells of only 1 second. This allows a mage to Concentrate and throw a missile spell in the same turn. By doing this the caster is giving up his active defenses for that turn as per All Out."[/I]

thoughts? Ideas?

And has anyone used the Range and Speed chart for spells instead of -1 per hex for regular spells? In thinking on it and wanted to know if any one has an special rules or tweaks on that idea? thank you