Revising Unarmed Combat Skills

[nerdvana]

I've been considering revising the unarmed combat skills (Boxing, Brawling, Judo, Karate, Sumo Wrestling, and Wrestling). My problem with them is the fact that five of the six skills share their names with styles from Martial Arts as well. So, my revision would be to rename the skills (but I'm having trouble with that)... Brawling is okay and Wrestling would become Grappling but the others I'm having trouble coming up with new (relatively simple) names.

I've also seen Luke's approach and I am sure other approaches have been taken.

So, I was wondering if anyone (a) had suggestions on renaming the skills or (b) other approaches to revise unarmed combat skills they'd be willing to share.

[Kromm]

Some apocryphal thinking from one of the designers: I'd prefer to break everything down to functional skills! I'd suggest the following:

• Punching (fists, forearms, elbows)
• Kicking (feet, shins, knees)
• Dirty Fighting (bites, gouges, head butts)
• Grappling (grabs, holds, locks)
• Shoving (slams, shoves)
• Throws (sweeps, throws, trips)

Then "karate" would be punching and kicking, "boxing" would be just punching, "wrestling" would be grappling, "judo" would be grappling and throws, etc. "Brawling" would be whatever combo you learned on the street. Obviously, the skill difficulties would depend on what's included; most would be Average, but some might be thin enough to rate as Easy. The design difficulty would reside in assigning actions to each skill with minimal overlap.

Considerations like being trained vs. weapons would rate as techniques or learnable advantages, not as skills at all. Smaller benefits, like needing only one hand to parry, would be perks. I wouldn't lend much thought to these latter things unless I were actually doing a paid revision, of course!

[Not]

Where's the tip jar?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Some apocryphal thinking from one of the designers: I'd prefer to break everything down to functional skills! I'd suggest the following:

• Punching (fists, forearms, elbows)
• Kicking (feet, shins, knees)
• Dirty Fighting (bites, gouges, head butts)
• Grappling (grabs, holds, locks)
• Shoving (slams, shoves)
• Throws (sweeps, throws, trips)

Then "karate" would be punching and kicking, "boxing" would be just punching, "wrestling" would be grappling, "judo" would be grappling and throws, etc. "Brawling" would be whatever combo you learned on the street. Obviously, the skill difficulties would depend on what's included; most would be Average, but some might be thin enough to rate as Easy. The design difficulty would reside in assigning actions to each skill with minimal overlap.

Considerations like being trained vs. weapons would rate as techniques or learnable advantages, not as skills at all. Smaller benefits, like needing only one hand to parry, would be perks. I wouldn't lend much thought to these latter things unless I were actually doing a paid revision, of course!

I like the flexibility, but I just feel that more than three skills for the full set (but with penalties for some of the techniques) is too much.

[Anthony]

Hm. Just building on top of the base maneuvers, I'm thinking something like:

• Brawling: unchanged, other than techniques used to build the other attacks.
• Boxing: brawling with the following techniques (cost 4)
  • Improved Punch +0
    Technique: average, default -2, max +0. Add +1/die to punch damage. Does not stack with claws. This is mechanically identical to blunt claws (hands only).
  • Retreating Parry +3
    Technique: average, default +1, max +3.
• Karate: brawling with the following techniques (cost 8)
  • Improved Strike +0
    Technique: average, default -3, max +0. Add +1/die to unarmed damage. Does not stack with claws. This is mechanically identical to blunt claws.
  • Parry Weapons +0
    Technique: average, default -3, max +0.
  • Retreating Parry +3
    Technique: average, default +1, max +3.

The wrestling/judo/sumo set is a bit messier, because they're more distinct in capability.

[nerdvana]

First...

Originally Posted by Not

Where's the tip jar?

... huh?

Then...

Originally Posted by Kromm

Some apocryphal thinking from one of the designers...

Interesting take.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I like the flexibility, but I just feel that more than three skills for the full set (but with penalties for some of the techniques) is too much.

I agree. This is why I was thinking of rebranding the existing skills.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

... huh?

Probably a joke referencing Kromm's "I wouldn't lend much thought to these latter things unless I were actually doing a paid revision, of course!"

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Probably a joke referencing Kromm's "I wouldn't lend much thought to these latter things unless I were actually doing a paid revision, of course!"

oh I see. I thought it was directed at me. Oops

[nerdvana]

So, I tried my hand at changing the skills but I found that cascaded into too many changes. My good friend Ghostdancer recently reminded me that the KISS principle is a good one (KISS meaning "Keep It Simple, Stupid" for those who don't know that).

So, renaming the skills seems easier. One approach I thought of was this...

Original Skill Name ... New Name
Brawling .............. Brawling
Wrestling ............. Grappling
Boxing ................ Martial Arts B
Karate ................ Martial Arts K
Sumo Wrestling ........ Martial Arts S
Judo .................. Martial Arts J

The problem I see with this is that "Martial Arts <Letter>" is fairly clunky and I foresee problems using it in gameplay. So, I'm back to one of my two original questions... how would you rename these skills to divorce them from the martial arts styles, but keep the names fairly easy to use while running the game?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

So, I tried my hand at changing the skills but I found that cascaded into too many changes. My good friend Ghostdancer recently reminded me that the KISS principle is a good one (KISS meaning "Keep It Simple, Stupid" for those who don't know that).

So, renaming the skills seems easier. One approach I thought of was this...

Original Skill Name ... New Name
Brawling .............. Brawling
Wrestling ............. Grappling
Boxing ................ Martial Arts B
Karate ................ Martial Arts K
Sumo Wrestling ........ Martial Arts S
Judo .................. Martial Arts J

The problem I see with this is that "Martial Arts <Letter>" is fairly clunky and I foresee problems using it in gameplay. So, I'm back to one of my two original questions... how would you rename these skills to divorce them from the martial arts styles, but keep the names fairly easy to use while running the game?

This is likely to invoke protests, but I'm offering my reply to your list in the hopes that it will inspire better answers:
Striking: Streetfighting
Striking: Pugilism
Striking: Finesse / Striking: Advanced
Grappling: Basic
Grappling: Finesse / Grappling: Advanced
Grappling: Weight-based

Not that I'm using 'advanced' in the sense of 'complex, difficult to master, multipurpose', not necessarily 'better'.

Oh, and I think that the benefit/drawback sets of Boxing and Sumo are largely a result of historical coincidence - it seems like there are fewer styles that have exactly those restrictions, as compared to Karate/Brawling/Wrestling/Judo.