is groin too easy to hit with swing attacks? are legs/neck too hard to hit with them?

Plane · 04-27-2021, 05:57 PM

At -3 it's easier to hit than the neck or face which take -5

when I imagine swinging a bat at someone it just seems like it'd be easier to aim at the cheek/neck area than at the groin, since if you come in from either side there's a thigh in the way and if you come down there's a torso in the way

If -3 reflects just the size (ie for ranged combat like gunshots, or thrusting attacks) then I'm wondering if anyone's approached adding a situational penalty for swung attacks, like for example an extra -2 for being behind "partial cover" where if you fail by 1 or 2 points you still get a hit but it's on the thigh instead of the groin.

To balance this out (since it makes swing attacks useful than in RAW) I was wondering about giving swing attacks something like a bonus to hit, somewhere between +1 to +4

Basically when I think of aiming the tip of a bat at a target like a leg or a neck vs swinging the side of a bat (or sword) it just seems like the swing would be much easier to aim than the thrust.

It also seems like it might potentially be harder to be accurate with very long weapons for reasons aside from their weight, moreso with thrusting attacks than with swung attacks.

If you compare aiming a 1-yard spear to a 4-yard spear for example, if both weigh two pounds, the 4-yard spear will likely have a center of mass further away from your hand.

In addition to that, bad alignment in the hand is going to get amplified at the speartip the longer the weapon is, so what would thoughts be on doing -1 per yard for thrusting attacks?

Swung attacks don't seem like they'd have this problem to the same degree though I'm not sure how to explain why it seems like that...

to use a Glaive (B272) as an example, if conceptually you are trying to swing/cut at a neck, a miss could possibly mean you arced too high (maybe hit the face?) or arced too low (hit the shoulder) whereas if you thrust/impale at a neck, in addition to high/low (jaw/sternum) there's also a left/right option where you can completely miss.

A complete miss with as swung attack could make more sense with swing/impale stuff like picks since you have a narrow point of contact, so being too far forward/back could mean it zings in front of the neck (complete miss) or behind the neck (crushing damage to neck?)

But for blades they tend to have a wider point of contact so you'd need to be off by a greater degree backward to completely miss, and if the blade extends all the wat to your hand then the only way you'd overreach is if you accidentally did a Backfist or something to the neck instead.

Anthony · 04-27-2021, 06:11 PM

Realistically, different weapons should have somewhat different hit location tables, but does anyone really want to go to that much trouble?

Stormcrow · 04-27-2021, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

does anyone really want to go to that much trouble?

That's basically it.

Polydamas · 04-27-2021, 06:19 PM

Realistically, swings, thrusts, and projectiles should have different random hit location tables and hit location penalties. Its much more common to stab or shoot someone in the Torso than cut them there. But the single table and single set of hit location penalties are simple.

GURPS Martial Arts: Gladiators has badly designed rules for refusing one side which could be inspirational.

Anaraxes · 04-27-2021, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

Realistically, different weapons should have somewhat different hit location tables, but does anyone really want to go to that much trouble?

Iron Crown Enterprises did, way back with Rolemaster. From which we learned that the answer is "no" :)

Hide · 04-28-2021, 12:26 AM

Also, thanks to the human shape, I think it might be harder for you to defend your groin than your neck/head.

Plane · 04-28-2021, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hide

Also, thanks to the human shape, I think it might be harder for you to defend your groin than your neck/head.

the -2 for low-line parries (with arm) sorta covers that, steering people to use leg parry instead

weby · 04-28-2021, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Iron Crown Enterprises did, way back with Rolemaster. From which we learned that the answer is "no" :)

Well, no, it is not hit location tables in Rolemaster, it is effect on different armor types for each weapon.

Hit location is only modeled by the critical tables and they are based on type of damage.

weby · 04-28-2021, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hide

Also, thanks to the human shape, I think it might be harder for you to defend your groin than your neck/head.

Well, also dodging is easier when someone strikes your head than your torso normally and so on, specially so for thrusting type weapons.

So for silly levels of realism you would need to have both different hit location tables based on type of attack and different modifiers to defenses based on type of attack and location.

Rupert · 04-28-2021, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Iron Crown Enterprises did, way back with Rolemaster. From which we learned that the answer is "no" :)

Runequest 3 had a 'melee' hit location table and a 'missile' table. It was... okay, but didn't seem worth the effort.

Rolemaster worked quite differently, seeing as the table weren't hit location tables, except incidentally.

04-27-2021, 05:57 PM	#1
Plane Join Date: Aug 2018	is groin too easy to hit with swing attacks? are legs/neck too hard to hit with them? At -3 it's easier to hit than the neck or face which take -5 when I imagine swinging a bat at someone it just seems like it'd be easier to aim at the cheek/neck area than at the groin, since if you come in from either side there's a thigh in the way and if you come down there's a torso in the way If -3 reflects just the size (ie for ranged combat like gunshots, or thrusting attacks) then I'm wondering if anyone's approached adding a situational penalty for swung attacks, like for example an extra -2 for being behind "partial cover" where if you fail by 1 or 2 points you still get a hit but it's on the thigh instead of the groin. To balance this out (since it makes swing attacks useful than in RAW) I was wondering about giving swing attacks something like a bonus to hit, somewhere between +1 to +4 Basically when I think of aiming the tip of a bat at a target like a leg or a neck vs swinging the side of a bat (or sword) it just seems like the swing would be much easier to aim than the thrust. It also seems like it might potentially be harder to be accurate with very long weapons for reasons aside from their weight, moreso with thrusting attacks than with swung attacks. If you compare aiming a 1-yard spear to a 4-yard spear for example, if both weigh two pounds, the 4-yard spear will likely have a center of mass further away from your hand. In addition to that, bad alignment in the hand is going to get amplified at the speartip the longer the weapon is, so what would thoughts be on doing -1 per yard for thrusting attacks? Swung attacks don't seem like they'd have this problem to the same degree though I'm not sure how to explain why it seems like that... to use a Glaive (B272) as an example, if conceptually you are trying to swing/cut at a neck, a miss could possibly mean you arced too high (maybe hit the face?) or arced too low (hit the shoulder) whereas if you thrust/impale at a neck, in addition to high/low (jaw/sternum) there's also a left/right option where you can completely miss. A complete miss with as swung attack could make more sense with swing/impale stuff like picks since you have a narrow point of contact, so being too far forward/back could mean it zings in front of the neck (complete miss) or behind the neck (crushing damage to neck?) But for blades they tend to have a wider point of contact so you'd need to be off by a greater degree backward to completely miss, and if the blade extends all the wat to your hand then the only way you'd overreach is if you accidentally did a Backfist or something to the neck instead.

04-27-2021, 06:11 PM	#2
Anthony Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA	Re: is groin too easy to hit with swing attacks? are legs/neck too hard to hit with t Realistically, different weapons should have somewhat different hit location tables, but does anyone really want to go to that much trouble? __________________ My GURPS site and Blog.

04-27-2021, 06:19 PM	#4
Polydamas Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central Europe	Re: is groin too easy to hit with swing attacks? are legs/neck too hard to hit with t Realistically, swings, thrusts, and projectiles should have different random hit location tables and hit location penalties. Its much more common to stab or shoot someone in the Torso than cut them there. But the single table and single set of hit location penalties are simple. GURPS Martial Arts: Gladiators has badly designed rules for refusing one side which could be inspirational. __________________ "It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature

04-28-2021, 12:26 AM	#6
Hide Join Date: Nov 2016	Re: is groin too easy to hit with swing attacks? are legs/neck too hard to hit with t Also, thanks to the human shape, I think it might be harder for you to defend your groin than your neck/head. __________________ - 画龍点睛。Ｈｉｄｅ。 Last edited by Hide; 04-28-2021 at 12:30 AM.