Detect and Ranged Attacks

[Engurrand]

I keep running into a confusion about how Detect and its derivate powers (seeker sense, telescan, psidar, etc) interact with ranged attacks.

Is a Psi with Telescan subject to darkness or light cover penalties for an attack against a target they can see and have recently telescaned?

By my reading of the rules, if Detect is not modified with Reflexive (and in the case of Telescan it is not), then you can only "ping" like a sonar, once per activation, to find the direction to your target. It would follow that once you've pinged somebody, you would not be able to target them, as you would have no guarantee that they remained stationary in the second since you pinged them. The best you could do would be to shoot into the hex that you pinged, hoping they hadn't moved. So, you could target that hex without light cover or darkness penalties, but not that person.

If you want to be able to "lock on" to a target with Telescan so that it continues to reveal the direction they're in after your ping, you need Reflexive. If you have Reflexive, then you ping all the time automatically and can target without darkness penalties, or even while blind, as long as you're fighting enemies you can detect.

Have I understood this correctly?

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

If you want to be able to "lock on" to a target with Telescan so that it continues to reveal the direction they're in after your ping, you need Reflexive. If you have Reflexive, then you ping all the time automatically and can target without darkness penalties, or even while blind, as long as you're fighting enemies you can detect.

Have I understood this correctly?

No. Reflexive is used to be able to use defensive powers "by reflexes". It doesn't make a sense somehow more accurate.

Powers Enhanced Senses, p8, talks about a "Targeting" enhancement, which gives +3 bonus on ranged attacks.

[Engurrand]

Sorry, I went to bed with this thread having 0 replies, and forgot to check in the morning.

The Targeting enhancement is offered for Scanning Sense and for Vibration Sense, but it is not offered for Detect. I could see an argument for allowing it for Detect but it's a pretty confusing situation.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

The Targeting enhancement is offered for Scanning Sense and for Vibration Sense, but it is not offered for Detect. I could see an argument for allowing it for Detect but it's a pretty confusing situation.

The requirement for a Targeting sense is that it must be a Precise sense (able to determine direction and distance, allowing an aimed ranged attack attack). Precise is an enhancement for Detect. So if you apply it, you can then apply the further Targeting enhancement. See pp. 5, 6, and 8 of Enhanced Senses.

[Engurrand]

Originally Posted by whswhs

The requirement for a Targeting sense is that it must be a Precise sense (able to determine direction and distance, allowing an aimed ranged attack attack). Precise is an enhancement for Detect. So if you apply it, you can then apply the further Targeting enhancement. See pp. 5, 6, and 8 of Enhanced Senses.

Interesting! Thank you for the clarification! So then if you have precise on your Detect, you can add Targeting to use it to get a +3 on attacks. Is that the only combat benefit of Detect?

If you have precise but not targeting, a player might argue they know where the opponent is, even if they can’t “lock on.” Detect is not subject to darkness or cover, so you know right where they are regardless of those obstacles. How would that affect your ranged attack roll?

Thanks.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

Interesting! Thank you for the clarification! So then if you have precise on your Detect, you can add Targeting to use it to get a +3 on attacks. Is that the only combat benefit of Detect?

If you have precise but not targeting, a player might argue they know where the opponent is, even if they can’t “lock on.” Detect is not subject to darkness or cover, so you know right where they are regardless of those obstacles. How would that affect your ranged attack roll?

You can make a ranged attack roll, but you don't get the Targeting bonus.

[Mr_Sandman]

I'd allow an attack at -4 (unseen target, but location known to one yard) in case of a target in darkness, behind cover, or that's invisible.

Edit: Missed that this is if Detect has precise. The -4 is more applicable when it doesn't.

[Engurrand]

So, if you have Detect with Precise, then you can ping a target and then on your next turn shoot them with a ranged attack that ignores darkness and cover penalties? (Though not cover DR, (edit: or range) obvs)

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

ping a target and then on your next turn shoot them

The target could move in between the ping and the shot. To be useful in combat, the sense would need to be either Reflexive (working automatically all the time, like most human senses), or at least have enough Reduced Time that you can use it actively as a free action. (Unless you've got Compartmentalized Mind or ATR to take two Maneuvers back to back, of course.)

[Engurrand]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

The target could move in between the ping and the shot. To be useful in combat, the sense would need to be either Reflexive (working automatically all the time, like most human senses), or at least have enough Reduced Time that you can use it actively as a free action. (Unless you've got Compartmentalized Mind or ATR to take two Maneuvers back to back, of course.)

That was my initial understanding but that doesn't seem to be what Mr. Sandman and whswhs are saying.