Electric Vs. Gas

[Daimyo_Shi]

So the Eletric Vs. Gas has always puzzled me, I never played Dueltrack in it original form so I only familiar Gas from the Compendium Era onwards. Because of this I never been sure what gas engines were suppose to well. Acceleration is figured the same way [Yes I realize there are a couple modifications that push this beyond what Electric can do.] But the top speed formula heavily favours electric with equal power factors and weight.

Every car will also have a top speed, based on the following formula:
360 x power factors/(power factors + weight) for electric power plants,
or 240 x power factors/(power factors + weight) for internal
combustion engines, rounded down to a multiple of 2.5 mph.

Car Wars Compendium p. 73

The only advantages I can see is Varity of Engines, which may allow better Ratio with Cars and a sometime space advantage if you tweek you Gas tank and engine just right. There is a weight advantage 300 CID for sure but you really start trading spaces at that point instead. The Three Biggest have great top speeds but you trade space for that. maybe I just don't have the right experence with it. Thoughts and comment?

[swordtart]

Every component is a balancing act. Good in some situations, bad in others.

There is no magic bullet :)

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by Daimyo_Shi

Thoughts and comment?

I'll be frank: _CW_'s "view" of Electric V. Gas is a product of its time.

At the time, Electric Cars were extremely heavy, due to the need for massive numbers of batteries to store the electricity. Weight being the enemy of performance, electric cars in the 1970s-80s did not accelerate, brake, or handle very well. Now, after some four decades of development, Electric cars can -- and do -- outperform "conventional" gasburners; tho' this is more to do with how the power is transmitted to the road (a gasburning engine used as an electricity generator for an electric driveline can generate the equivalent of Acceleration 30 in a 3,000-lb. car). These days, the critical failure point for Electrics is Range, and even that has improved past what _CW_ has published (some modern electrics can run 300 miles at 65 MPH, compared with _CW_'s "200 miles at 55 MPH").

There was another aspect of _CW_ which was a product of its time: The notion "the oil is going to run out" -- this was just after the '70s Oil Crises (note plural), among other points. (There is a certain irony in that the development of Electric Cars is proceeding about in parallel with the _CW_ timeline, but not as a result of oil running out, or Grain Blights, or any of that.) However, four decades on, folks have figured out how to "make" fuel from non-dinosaur sources -- including, in the height of Irony here, algae.

These two points caused a bit of a problem for _CW_ -- Electrics, as written, were poor performers as compared with Gasburners, which has proven to be Not The Case; in fact, in some respects, Gas and Electric Performance should be reversed (see above). Also, as noted: It's become much easier to create gasoline "replacements" (biodiesel; hydrogen fuel cells; etc.). So the justification for Electric Power Plants becomes much harder. (I can attest to this -- the "standard" power pack for _CW_ past about Div. 20 when I was playing regularly was a 150cid with Turbo; even a Large plant with PCs was just too heavy to go against the 6-8d6 gun batteries we saw.) This led to the attempts to "nerf" gas engines -- the weight increase, and the top-speed penalty -- which didn't really work out.

There's other stuff, but the above is the most-relevant part -- it's kind of the same as how _OGRE_ doesn't have Air Power, despite the fact Air Power has become ever more important to warfare, while tanks are rapidly becoming literal dinosaurs as well as figurative ones.

[Daimyo_Shi]

So if the last few days of taking various Vehicle designs from ADQ have taught me anything, it is that I likely have a tendency to overpower my cars in the plant department, so that might be why I have an difference of opinion on Electrics vs. Gas. My tanks for the responses.

https://autoduelingandmapleleaves.ob.../beaver-motors

A small example of my designs and a couple updates of some of the Police Designs from Sunday Drives/Crash City.

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by Daimyo_Shi

https://autoduelingandmapleleaves.ob.../beaver-motors

OK, first off: Love the company name. (Beaver is my "totem", so to speak).

Second: Like the designs -- maybe a bit undergunned, but definitely decently-armored, and perform well.

[Daimyo_Shi]

Originally Posted by 43Supporter

OK, first off: Love the company name. (Beaver is my "totem", so to speak).

Second: Like the designs -- maybe a bit undergunned, but definitely decently-armored, and perform well.

Based on my current experiences looking at ADQ feature designs, I says Flight is always an option in my designs. The Monte Carlo is an Oil Executives toy at best. And putting Thundercats into anything is a bit of chore.

As for the Beaver it is the national Animal of Canada and honestly their is nothing more Canadians with Second generation Canadians opening a business with patriotic names plates. :)

[swordtart]

Always good to see new designs, especially for public utility vehicles.

It would also be useful to get a Canadian perspective on CW lore. The lack of information means you are now our resident subject matter expert :)

I always assumed there would be a RCADA (Royal Canadian Autoduel Association). I am not sure if the Quebecois version would be QADA or AADQ (it would depend if the parent organisation named it or it was named by the Quebec faction). The French tend to be quite dogmatic about rebadging things in the French language (e.g. OTAN vs the rest of the world using NATO). We presumed that if Quebec had declared independence from the rest of Canada it would be equally dogmatic in insisting on full translations rather than using borrowed words. As UK royalty had fled to Canada we also assumed that the ties to the mother country would be reinforced and that Royal patronage would be a feature of the CW future.

Our group at least held the RCMP in high esteem. I think "Due South" romanticised our view of the Mountie as polite, dogged and incorruptible. Whether this is actually true or a discredited fantasy is less relevant here than what we want the fantasy of the RCMP in CW to be. However we do tend to extrapolate from the real-world.

At the time we played (where there was no internet) we assumed that the "Mounties" were the only police force in Canada. We had plenty of exposure to the local, regional and federal police of the US via movies and their bounded jurisdictions (hammered home by the Duke boys "running for the county line"). I suspect none of us really realised that our own UK Police had an equally disjointed jurisdiction and assumed that "UK Police" was a single entity rather than a federation of regional forces (or indeed that there was in fact a force with nationwide jurisdiction in the British Transport Police). Now of course we can minutely investigate the structure of our own and other nations police forces (and that same communications benefit means those forces are probably now far more joined up than they used to be).

[43Supporter]

I'd have to dig through the files, but I do seem to remember some write-ups of Things Canuck -- _GURPS Autoduel_ had some discussion of Canada and Quebec; I think one of Novak's Bialy stories mentioned an RCMP "deserter" as well. There wasn't a lot, for various reasons, but it was there.

[Daimyo_Shi]

Originally Posted by swordtart

Always good to see new designs, especially for public utility vehicles.

It would also be useful to get a Canadian perspective on CW lore. The lack of information means you are now our resident subject matter expert :)

I always assumed there would be a RCADA (Royal Canadian Autoduel Association). I am not sure if the Quebecois version would be QADA or AADQ (it would depend if the parent organisation named it or it was named by the Quebec faction). The French tend to be quite dogmatic about rebadging things in the French language (e.g. OTAN vs the rest of the world using NATO). We presumed that if Quebec had declared independence from the rest of Canada it would be equally dogmatic in insisting on full translations rather than using borrowed words. As UK royalty had fled to Canada we also assumed that the ties to the mother country would be reinforced and that Royal patronage would be a feature of the CW future.

Our group at least held the RCMP in high esteem. I think "Due South" romanticised our view of the Mountie as polite, dogged and incorruptible. Whether this is actually true or a discredited fantasy is less relevant here than what we want the fantasy of the RCMP in CW to be. However we do tend to extrapolate from the real-world.

At the time we played (where there was no internet) we assumed that the "Mounties" were the only police force in Canada. We had plenty of exposure to the local, regional and federal police of the US via movies and their bounded jurisdictions (hammered home by the Duke boys "running for the county line"). I suspect none of us really realised that our own UK Police had an equally disjointed jurisdiction and assumed that "UK Police" was a single entity rather than a federation of regional forces (or indeed that there was in fact a force with nationwide jurisdiction in the British Transport Police). Now of course we can minutely investigate the structure of our own and other nations police forces (and that same communications benefit means those forces are probably now far more joined up than they used to be).

I working on ideas around a Western Canada campaign, the RCMP might feature heavily. My Father was 29 year veteran of the RCMP so that helps greatly in that regard. I am a Canadian focused Historian as well. I have to look at the Australians AADA Atlas which had some information on the Royals.

https://autoduelingandmapleleaves.ob...-general-notes

Not this section starts with the Canada entry from ADQ 2/4 so that very American Centric entry was include my Modification of lore starts at "The Red and White Winter Land" on that page. The Campaign touches on First Nations and their role in the dystopia of Car Wars. This is topical in Canada right now as we are dealing with investigations into mass graves at Residential schools.

I have the AADA referring to Canada as AADA - Canada [I believe the Australian did the same until King William gave them a Royal] In Canada it often refered to as CADA. Quebec would maybe be the same as QADA or it might be AQAD - Association Québécoise d'Autoduel.

https://autoduelingandmapleleaves.ob...mounted-police

I will not lie given that I am the son of a RCMP officer, I come with a lot of Bias about RCMP, and as a result I tried to make real change in them so they are a better organization in Car War than they have been.

[juris]

Lore: CW 6.0 - 2035: Still dwindling supplies of oil and... natural gas?

2039: Still Free Oil States

2065: Royal Canadian Mounted Police, led by Brian "Cuts like a knife" Adams VI attempt to re-conquer the breakaway province of Quebec. Turn around and go home when they realize it's just a bunch of hosers.

You're welcome

Also agree with 43 - electrics in CW were based on some outmoded tech. My main problem with gas engines was how ridiculously light they were compared to electrics. The low top speed was not a balancing factor.

Also, electrics made the best racers, even though every single person who bought dueltrack immediately made a supercharged gas burner with a top speed of 80 and an acceleration of 15, and thought that was weird.