Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-18-2021, 03:59 AM   #1
Hrothgar Rannúlfr
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default Effects of Increasing Intelligence

I have about a 35 year history with various editions of D&D, but I am new to The Fantasy Trip. Only heard of it, recently and purchased the Legacy in PDF format, about a week ago, after reading Melee and I'm trying to get a good understanding of the rules before sharing anything more than Melee with my friends that play D&D. I really hope that they like it and want to be as accurate as I can be in understanding the rules before introducing it to them.

Please, excuse what might seem to be a few very basic questions. Apologies if they've been asked, before, but my searches were ineffective.

1. In TFT: Wizard[/I], does my wizard automatically learn new spells if his intelligence increases?

2. In In the Labyrinth, does my figure learn new talents and/or spells if his intelligence increases?

I think the answer to both of my questions is no, but am hoping that I'm wrong.

Thank you.
Hrothgar Rannúlfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2021, 06:58 AM   #2
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Effects of Increasing Intelligence

In the old rules, as a figures IQ increased, they could automatically attain new spells and talents as long as they met the requirements.

With the Legacy rules, I’m not 100% sure. The details are on p45 of the new ITL.

I use the older way.
Chris Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2021, 08:01 AM   #3
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Effects of Increasing Intelligence

In the Wizard microgame, yes, one gets another spell slot when increasing IQ. However, if using the more expansive rules from the Legacy Edition of in the Labyrinth, new spells and talents need to be bought with XP, so an increase in IQ merely opens new possibilities.
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2021, 08:51 AM   #4
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Effects of Increasing Intelligence

See the difference between:

Wizard rulebook page 4: "The number of spells a wizard knows is equal to his IQ"

and

ITL page 16: "The number of spells a wizard can start with is limited by his IQ,"
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2021, 10:09 AM   #5
Hrothgar Rannúlfr
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default Re: Effects of Increasing Intelligence

Thank you, everyone. Much appreciated.
Hrothgar Rannúlfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2021, 04:17 AM   #6
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Effects of Increasing Intelligence

Welcome Hrothgar!

The 1st edition of ITL from the 80's had some very clear rules for learning new spells and talents that don't appear in the Legacy edition.

Basically a character had to list on their record sheet from 1 to 2 things they were learning/studying. A formula determined how long each spell or talent took to learn. If that much "game time" had passed by the time they raised their IQ, they could take the spell or talent as soon as their IQ increased. If their IQ increased before the required learning time was up, they still had to wait the required learning time before they could start using the skill or casting the spell.

Back then there was no XP cost for these things, you just had to have enough IQ and have waited the required time to add new ones.

I still prefer the older rules.
__________________
"I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I'm right."
Steve Plambeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2021, 09:06 AM   #7
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Effects of Increasing Intelligence

The advantage of 1st edition over legacy edition is that 1st edition severely limited the ability of wizards to learn lots of talents and legacy edition has halved that penalty.

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/legacy_first.html#XP
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2021, 10:13 AM   #8
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Effects of Increasing Intelligence

It's not at all simple as what Henry says.

Wizards have a strong incentive to increase IQ. In old TFT, this meant they got additional spells and talents, but increasing IQ is expensive so once you had a high attribute total, you got few new skills. But of course, this was true for everyone and probably affected heroes more than wizards, because they would have spent early points on ST and DX.

Beginning wizards are worse off with Legacy, because they could have used the initial cheap attribute points to gain talents and spells early on.

It's true that everyone with high attributes gained talents and spells very slowly once they hit a high attribute total. Henry sometimes forgets that some characters are not wizards. This fact may confuse new players who wonder why his comments apply only to wizards.

In fact, a starting wizard in the old system might have spent three of his first four attributes on IQ (not Henry's Molly, who starts off seriously deficient in DX, of course) and gained three new points to spend on spells or talents for only 700XP. Under the new system, to gain four attributes of any sort and three new talent points costs 1500XP more.

Once the character is at 40 attribute points, a new talent point would require an increase in IQ and so 1000XP under the old system. Under the new system, it costs only 500XP but if you also want the increase in IQ, it's 8500XP. In that sense, if a wizard with 40 attribute points wants to learn a new one point talent under the old system, it cost him 2000XP instead of 1000XP under the new. I'd hardly call it "the" advantage of old over new.

(Thanks to Henry's link, I've edited my comments to include the first edition TFT XP costs for attribute increases.)

Last edited by phiwum; 04-19-2021 at 08:05 PM.
phiwum is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2021, 04:25 PM   #9
Skipper2921
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default Re: Effects of Increasing Intelligence

To the original post, I think the answer is "it depends". Under Learning New Spells and Talents, the last paragraph on ITL45 states " When you add a new ability (spell or talent), you can use it immediately. It is assumed that you were practicing. . . ". However, the next paragraph on ITL46 says "A few talents require roleplaying to gain. Thiefly talents must be learned from the Thieves' Guild. . ."

My advice is to run with the situation and what makes sense for you. If you are doing arena combat with Melee/Wizard then add the talent as soon as the IQ is earned. If you are transitioning a world you have already created, then add the roleplaying requirement where it makes sense for your game.
Skipper2921 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 02:16 AM   #10
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Effects of Increasing Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
The advantage of 1st edition over legacy edition is that 1st edition severely limited the ability of wizards to learn lots of talents and legacy edition has halved that penalty.
Wait, what am I missing here Henry? Legacy ITL clearly states the XP costs double for wizards adding more talents, and triple for non-wizards adding new spells.
__________________
"I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I'm right."
Steve Plambeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.