Help a noobie understand critical hits

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Colonel__Klink

Ah I got swing and thrust reversed. So it's 2d+1 minus dr x 1.5 for one attack a turn vs 2d6, enemy dr halved for 3 or more attacks a turn. I wonder which is nastier...

RoF isn't that good, TBH. You certainly don't get "3 or more attacks a turn" out of it unless you're doing very particular things.

The thing is, it's not 3 or more attacks. It's one attack that can hit multiple times...can. But practically won't much, because you need at least 2 margin of success for each additional hit.

Of course, you're focused on the 'what if the dice come up 3', and I'm not that worried about that because it's a less-than-2% chance.

[Colonel__Klink]

Originally Posted by JulianLW

Are you - and your players - really wanting to play in a game in which a head shot from a high-powered rifle does NOT mean automatic death?

yes

You do realize most people don't play tabletop games because they want an exact reproduction of what they'd experience IRL if they tried to do the same stuff right?

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Colonel__Klink

Instead of having to invent rule after rule after rule after rule to special plead a way out of a problem, wouldn't the solution to be to... solve the problem? Just.... reduce the damage so that you aren't seeing 20d6 potential damage?

How would characters kill monsters or AFVs with nerfed guns?

[Colonel__Klink]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

How would characters kill monsters or AFVs with nerfed guns?

How do players kill dragons with swords?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Colonel__Klink

How do players kill dragons with swords?

With great difficulty, if at all? Probably using excessively high strength based damage plus magic plus unrealistic Weapon Master bonus damage plus Vitals hit location.

[JulianLW]

Originally Posted by Colonel__Klink

yes

You do realize most people don't play tabletop games because they want an exact reproduction of what they'd experience IRL if they tried to do the same stuff right?

So then what's the problem with Luck and Unkillable?!

I honestly can't figure out what your problem is, here, then. You want your players to get shot at, but you want it to not matter at all to the tune of getting shot right in the head with a sniper rifle and walking away?

So give them all Luck, Unkillable, HT 16, and DR 50!

Or did you want regular humans to shrug off head shots? Because that doesn't seem very UNIVERSAL to me.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Colonel__Klink

You do realize most people don't play tabletop games because they want an exact reproduction of what they'd experience IRL if they tried to do the same stuff right?

So then if the PC shoot a baseline human guard in the head with a high caliber rifle, the guard's not going to die, either?

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Colonel__Klink

I'm not even saying I don't want luck in the game. I'm saying THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH A GAME THAT REQUIRES DICE ROLL FUDGING.

You can build characters to withstand gunshots, or you can let them die.

If there's a problem, it's that you don't want the solutions for some reason.

Originally Posted by Varyon

Massless HP is certainly an option. You might also consider Vitality Reserve; personally I'd fluff this the same way high HP is fluffed in That Other Game - it represents near-misses, grazes, etc, rather than the character simply no-selling a hit.

Ablative DR works great in this function.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Colonel__Klink

How do players kill dragons with swords?

By being built powerful enough to do so.

Like we do if we want them to readily survive gunshots.

So then, what is your answer to the question I posed?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Colonel__Klink

People aren't disappointed when they buy a SW-1 cut TL 4 saber, have a really high 16 strength and therefore roll just a 1d6 for base damage and multiply by 1.5 for wounding modifier now do they?

People who are looking for decent damage aren't going to go for that sabre, which has the lowest swing damage in Characters of any weapon that isn't a knife or whip. A dedicated swordsman is also unlikely to be built with only ST 10.

Now, if your players are coming at things from the perspective of how it all works in video games (which is fine!), they may well expect even unarmed attacks to do more damage than some firearms, as that's how it often works in games to give closing to melee range a benefit. But if they're coming at things from the perspective of movies (where a gun in the hands of a protagonist is an Instant Death Wand) or real life, they're going to be expecting for their gunslinger to be able to take out foes rather readily.

Originally Posted by Colonel__Klink

It's a flat out garbage weapon by game rules and nobody complains about it? So why would it feel enemic to be able to knock the average human into negative hp with a rifle in one hit?

That 2d(2) pi rifle, when used against an unarmored HP 10 foe, has an 8.33% chance of dropping the foe to 0 HP, and an equal probability (8.33%) of dropping the foe into negative HP. That's all of a 1-in-6 chance. Now, safe money is that it's going to deal a Major Wound (6 or more, 72.22% chance), and it has a better-than-even chance of dropping the foe below 1/3xHP (7 or more, 58.33%), so it will work alright against unaugmented street thugs or maybe some farmers... but against cyborgs, vampires, monsters, etc? Probably not.